Navy, Maas, League kudos guys [Archive]

Spektyr

09-02-2002, 07:26

It ain't over yet.

We're still waiting for the real attack. Getting pretty boring waiting for you guys to get it together. :grntngue:

C'mon. We've got a nice surprise for you.

"3 of the strongest factions alive" ? LOL... you could just as easily say "the 3 weakest factions alive".

Factions with bases in order of points:
Navy
MCA
TTW
Oman
:grngrin:

Enough of the skirmishes... when are you guys going to attack for real? :grntngue:

In all seriousness, this last invasion force was actually respectable, it was nice of you to take us seriously. But you're gonna have to do better. C'mon... it's three on one, it's a fair fight. Pay no attention to the ambushers in the trees...

scorpionalph

09-02-2002, 10:54

Hehe!!! We hold our position!!! It´s fun to fight against all this enemies!!! It´s havy Work but Fun! But at the end you all join the NAVY! :grngrin: :D :grngrin:

Grimlock

09-02-2002, 14:40

Sorry to break it to ya but the standings on the score board have nothing to do with a factions power.

These point are the OVERALL points a faction has ever earned therefore if they HAD 50 level 10 ships and they all died the score would still stay the same since it never goes down

The scores up there are only right for the first week or two

Cya in Liberty :D

Spektyr

09-02-2002, 17:56

Well, those scores might not give an accurate minute to minute account of a the faction's fleet strength, but they do suggest what faction is fighting the smartest.

I really should thank you guys for first sending in small groups of ships that that we can level up and score nice points for a day or so before we fall back to the next defensive position. (pssst, MCA... remind you of anyone?)

Yeah, the over-all score doesn't reflect the up-to-the-minute status of your fleet, but it does indicate how well you're playing.

inVurt

09-02-2002, 19:09

I'm not so sure of that, Spektyr. What is important are relative changes, so if your score goes up 30k a turn, whereas everybody else's is under 25k a turn, then yeah, it's an indicator you're doing something right.

But then you get these huge spikes whenever a faction defends against a base assault, as the low ranks fire on high rank targets. It doesn't accomplish much in terms of defending against the enemy, at least not right away, but it sends your score through the roof.

And your faction might very well be dead, but you still have a mighty impressive score since it just defended and the low ranks didn't have to waste any moves getting to their targets. And the score hangs around until it drops through the rest.

I suspect that the factions with the healthiest position hover near the middle of the overall score chart. They're not at the bottom, which is bad, and they're not defending, which means they could very likely be dead soon.

Not that I'm trying to imply anything... :rollani:

-- inVurt

Jagge

09-02-2002, 20:37

Yup, we are nowhere near dead yet. Our valiant forces are defending our space with dedication one can only envy from your side :D

Anyways the fight over our HQ isn't over until it's over.

Boris

11-02-2002, 05:28

This thread is for wooses, so far.

The only time to praise your enemies is when they are dead.

If their base is destroyed, their ships torn asunder, their pilots' bodies atomised across the vastness of space; when your sensors count the organic molecules in what had been vacuum and register only flaming plasma where before there had been life...

Then a warrior may consider if his foe fought well and if it is meet to drink blood-wine in memory of blood bravely spilt!

B.

2potscreama

11-02-2002, 14:37

Personally, I doubt we'll be taking out Liberty HQ any time soon.

None of the FCs appear to be able to coordinate their own forces, let alone liase with each other for an effective assault.

The Oman is too worried about the Leaguers to want to attack Sanra Romera in full force, and MCS/TTW seem incapable of advancing past Mercy/St Elmo.

Still, it's a nice dance. We dance round you, you dance round us. Very pretty.

captcoyote

12-02-2002, 07:22

*Captcoyote goes to the opera.* "Dang! I have already missed half the show (base is less than 40%). The fat lady is already practicing in the wings!" *In the distance you can here the female voice going "mee, mee, mee, mee.."* "If only I hadn't stopped of to eat a Navy Zen burger first!"

Lightspeed

12-02-2002, 16:11

Too late. The fat lady just started :)

Spektyr

12-02-2002, 19:41

Well, she just hopped a Megafreighter and she's warming up again.

I wonder how trustworthy allies are for defending a base they're going to have to plan on destroying anyway...

inVurt

12-02-2002, 20:18

Spektyr, your last post is a thinly veiled attempt to provoke mistrust in two factions that have worked closely and well together for the entire game. This forum is not a secondary battleground, but a place where players and in-game enemies can chat about game-related issues and have discussions in a cordial atmosphere, and it would be appreciated if you kept that in mind in the future.

Originally posted by Spektyr
Santa Romera: Assault here, Die here.

Choose one of the two options... :grngrin:

-- inVurt

Spektyr

12-02-2002, 23:17

Okay then, go re-read Grimlock's post entitled "Will everyone just stop with the whole "honour" thing"

It basically raises the same points, but I guess it's a bit more thickly veiled than my post. Of course it was blatantly obvious to everyone in the game that it was directly addressing the current events at the time. (or at least precipitated by them.)

"Cordial atmosphere"? Uh, this is a game right? I mean we aren't actually controlling real ships and getting real people killed last time I checked. If anyone's really getting upset about this stuff they need to go seek psychiatric help. I'm not going to be responsible if my game-related conjecture causes someone to overreact.

"Spektyr, your last post is a thinly veiled attempt to provoke mistrust in two factions that have worked closely and well together for the entire game."

Ah, I see. You're going for the co-op win. Oh, that's right... there isn't one.

Now judging by your avatar and the fact that TTW is the other faction we're talking about (as everyone knows), I find it interesting that your choice of words was "two factions".

Now I wouldn't want to make any thinly veiled attempts here, but SOMEONE is gonna get bent over by someone else. Now we can look at your statement and draw some obvious conclusions, or we can look at my statement and draw some obvious tactical advantages from it.

However, don't acuse me of doing something evil when every single person in this game knows that two more bases have to be destroyed. It only makes logical sense not to spend your efforts destroying ships that are attacking a base you're going to have to destroy eventually anyway. And that's speaking both hypothetically and literally. The only reason to hunt League, Maas, or Navy ships now is if they're threating your ability to win. Otherwise, they're actually improving your chances.

Or am I the first person to think of this? (I doubt it.)

inVurt

13-02-2002, 03:06

Whoa, didn't mean to step on a nerve there, Spektyr.

When I read your previous post, it seemed to me that you were a little pissed off and looking to do something about it here on the boards, instead of just in game. If that was not the case, then please accept my apology. If that was indeed the case, then my words stand.

I've been starting to get a little pissed off recently at the sheer amount of apparent cheating that goes on in this game. I've almost felt justified in dabbling in it myself, it's gotten so bad. After all, when in Rome... So when I read your post, it seemed like you were using the forum to try and provoke hostilities between two specific factions, instead of doing something about it in game, and I got a little ticked.

As for "two factions", well, considering the circumstances that you mentioned don't exist for the third faction, I felt sufficiently justified in referring to just the two, and that was all that was meant by it. Other than that, I can't respond to the rest of your post, as I don't feel comfortable referring to the current in-game information that would be required to do so.

Cheers,

-- inVurt

captcoyote

13-02-2002, 07:04

Originally posted by Spektyr
Now I wouldn't want to make any thinly veiled attempts here, but SOMEONE is gonna get bent over by someone else. Now we can look at your statement and draw some obvious conclusions, or we can look at my statement and draw some obvious tactical advantages from it.

However, don't acuse me of doing something evil when every single person in this game knows that two more bases have to be destroyed. It only makes logical sense not to spend your efforts destroying ships that are attacking a base you're going to have to destroy eventually anyway. And that's speaking both hypothetically and literally. The only reason to hunt League, Maas, or Navy ships now is if they're threating your ability to win. Otherwise, they're actually improving your chances.

Or am I the first person to think of this? (I doubt it.)

It is like I told you before in the game, Spektyr. You always go for the chicken sh*t moves. You know as well as I that your group really wanted to destroy the Oman base. Not the TTW base. Fortunately for the Oman somebody was there to give them warning that you guys would try this, and we were ready for you. Since you guys did not have the cajones to stay and fight, you ran like girls to see if there was somebody else to pick on. And now you are pleading for people to not shoot at you, by arguing that you are doing our dirty work for us anyway. Give me a break! :dark:

Spektyr

13-02-2002, 12:15

inVurt: I'm sorry, I did misunderstand you. I wasn't mad or upset, in fact I've been having the time of my life right up until this turn when I finally got destroyed (which I'm also not upset about, I knew it was inevitable). I mean, I survived 2 turns longer than I should have and did about 3k damage to a base in 2 turns with a repairship! It was FUN! Woulda been more fun to survive another turn, but hey... I was living on borrowed time as it was. As for the 'purpose' of my post, I was just making a friendly pessimistic comment on my prediction of the future (not all that different than people taunting us about destroying our HQ before it happened, at least not in my opinion).

captcoyote: Gee, I think I'll fire up the 2 brain cells it takes to figure out who might have told the Oman what the plans we'd been talking about doing once our base was under attack. Would've had to have been someone on the command staff, that deleted his account, and then joined the Oman. Know anyone like that? However, why don't you lose the "More-Daredevil-than-you" attitude? First off, I wasn't in command of that squadron, so my bravery or cowardice had no bearings on where it jumped to. Second, I knew I was never going to see Navy space again when I left... at least not while flying my level 10 ship. Third, you cannot claim to have any idea what the Navy's plans might have become after you deleted your Navy account. Finally, the goal of that mission was to divert enemy fleet assets away from our HQ. We didn't expect to be able to do as much damage as we did. The Oman had a sizeable force to defend? Mission accomplished there: Enemy fleet forces diverted away from our HQ. Who else was closest? Well, that's where we went. Classic case of thinking with your Northern head instead of the southern one that says to go out in a blaze of glory.

We sought to serve the Navy, and I'm damn proud of the work we did, even if we didn't ultimately save the HQ. I personally believe our actions allowed it to survive longer than it would have otherwise.

Gandalf_uk

14-02-2002, 00:50

This might be old but captcoyote told the Oman nothing about wht you were doing it was another piolet that noticed the navy jumping out through League space we got worried and split our fleet some whent home some stayed to fight so don't blame captcoyote for your loss

Spektyr

14-02-2002, 01:25

Try re-reading my post and find where I said that captcoyote's actions in any way affected the outcome of the war.

Okay, don't bother, it's not there because I never made that claim. However, it is considered poor form to give information about a faction's plans after joining another faction, especially when you delete your account so that you can manipulate what faction you're in.

Okay, it is possible that captcoyote didn't tell them what we were planning. It is likely IMHO that he did. Neither you nor I can prove it one way or the other Gandalf. I had no access to Oman comms at the time, and unless by some bug you have every single Oman comm re-routed to you, you can't claim to know everything every Oman ship has transmitted. However, the issue isn't whether a pilot observed the Navy squadron moving... captcoyote very clearly stated a PRIOR knowledge of this tactic. He said that someone had warned that we would try it. That explicitly implies the warning came prior to the execution of the mission.

Check your history, the Navy squadron came through FF... League space would've taken too long. The League ships probably came through League space, they left a long time before we did.

inVurt

14-02-2002, 01:39

To my knowledge, captcoyote1 didn't give any information to the Oman regarding what he had learned in the Navy. Actually, I think we had already surmised what the League ships would probably do, and then you more or less confirmed that yourself, Spektyr, when you mentioned something about "Oh, and don't look at the lions over there in the trees," or some such.

In any case, by that point we had already considered our course of action. The reason League ships were attacked when they jumped through Oman occupied territory, actually, before they even were the "lions in trees" lurking in Hoffer's HQ, was not that we would break any NAP more or less instantly, but that we had thought they were already on their way to Daru HQ. After all, they had already employed this tactic against the TTW earlier in the game.

In a situation like that, there's no way to verify the "truth" of the matter without question, after all, why would you trust someone you thought might be rushing your base? Instead you err on the side that hurts you the least, and that's what we did.

So no, no unethical behaviour is required to explain our subsequent behaviour. Please apply Occam's Razor liberally before applying more salt and vinegar to the various open sores we've all had a hand in creating...

Can we put this to rest now please?

-- inVurt

captcoyote

14-02-2002, 01:56

Originally posted by Spektyr

captcoyote: Gee, I think I'll fire up the 2 brain cells it takes to figure out who might have told the Oman what the plans we'd been talking about doing once our base was under attack.
I am just sorry you had to waste those 2 brain cells. :p

ThePlayer

14-02-2002, 23:28

SHUT UP!!!!

Spektyr is right here. The tactic was one used successfully by...that's right, me and the ladz (RavenWing) when we pulled...

1) About a third of the 3Way fleet away from the League base by launching an attack there (I got SO much blame for picking a fight, but we were next anyway!)

2) About a quarter of the 3Way fleet away from Dagda Prime by launching an attack into 3Way HQ...If we'd attacked that base we'd have killed it, dammit!

So, I wouldn't say that Spektyr didn't know what he was on about. And, the Oman base was never the objective. Did you ACTUALLY think that was announced on all-comms because it was actually going to happen? Nnnnnnnggggh! DUH! Is your fleet totally made up of idiots?

For goodness' sake! All I have seen is total bitterness between loads of people I used to respect! The only one who's had the sense and decency to stay out of it is the guy who most of the taunts have been at - The-Hawk

Look, I can't believe I'm about to say this - I'm only 16 - but GROW UP! If you have a problem with someone put them on your target list for the next game!

The End

inVurt

15-02-2002, 00:34

Originally posted by ThePlayer
And, the Oman base was never the objective. Did you ACTUALLY think that was announced on all-comms because it was actually going to happen? Nnnnnnnggggh! DUH! Is your fleet totally made up of idiots?

No, I think it was the shots you were taking at it that formed that particular opinion... :grntngue:

-- inVurt

Spektyr

15-02-2002, 01:12

Taking shots at a base doesn't mean you're trying to kill it.

Knocking the shields down a bit is something every single pilot can see as soon as they log in, illiciting an instant defensive reaction. The goal being to get an organized defensive response, and cause as many undisciplined pilots to head home as possible.

It's called a "Spoiling Raid". You can look it up in real-life military tactics. The goal of a spoiling raid isn't to do any appreciable damage, but rather to cause a disruption in the enemies current battle plan. A spoiling raid consists of a smaller force, who moves around or through enemy lines, to hit smaller, lightly defended targets, and evading any large force attempt to catch them.

Slip in, hit supply lines, slip out. Slip in, hit command centers, slip out. Guerrilla tactics, never facing the enemy on even footing, tying up as many resources as possible in the effort to hunt them down. If we had attacked the Oman base in earnest, we would never have lived long enough to attack TTW as well, and TTW would not have needed to pull any forces back to defend it. The entire goal was to get as many enemy ships chasing us as we could.

Many times the Navy would broadcast over all friendlies things that were 'misinformation' designed to mislead our enemies if they did in fact have spies in our ranks. Privately the actual orders were given to those who needed them. This same tactic is also useful in placating impatient pilots who do not have faith that the leadership is doing anything when the command staff holds it's strategy discussions privately from the entire faction. They see things being planned that do not include them, but they at least are given the impression that something is being done even if they are not real plans. Some may view this as lying to your pilots, but when you have 'loose cannons' in your ranks, pilots that are likely to run off and make up their own disruptive missions if they feel that leadership isn't doing anything, it is sometimes vital to do things like this to keep those pilots happy for the good of the alliance.

inVurt

15-02-2002, 02:27

Oh, I'm sure you'd have been very happy with the result if Daru HQ went down quickly... An honest question: if you had gotten it to 50%, would you have pulled out to attack the TTW base instead, or tried to finish it off, spoiling raid or no?

Yes, we thought it was an actual play for our base. And why shouldn't we? Ignoring suspect comms messages, it still made sense. A strong enough attack and we'd have been forced to pull out our forces to deal with it, and weaken the front to something hopefully your ships back in Santa Romera could manage. I don't see why ThePlayer should call the Oman fleet a bunch of idiots for sending ships back to try and defend its base and keep the enemy tied up long enough for the alliance ships in Santa Romera to finish their job. And I thought we did a good job with both objectives, given what we guessed you were doing.

Um, what was this argument over again? :confused: Or have we simply reduced this to chest-thumping?

-- inVurt

Gandalf_uk

15-02-2002, 02:38

gandalf * Grabs His club and starts to shout*

UG UGG UG UG.....Beats chest

Uga chuga uga chuga weeeeeeee(or what wever wingee used to post)

Do I win??? :bigeye:

http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/cwm/kodama/01.gif

captcoyote

15-02-2002, 04:29

[/B]
Do I win??? [/B]

Yup! You win. I can't thump my chest. I can scratch my ear with my hind leg and lick myself though! HA! :grntngue:

Spektyr

15-02-2002, 08:07

Yeah, we probably would've stayed if Daru HQ had gone down as fast as TTW did, but given the number of ships you had there, it probably would've cost us too much too fast. We were still gathering forces in Oman space when the Daru shooting was going on, we were basically trying to be as irritating as we could while all the ships got into position. Scans showed a good number of Oman ships coming after us, and very little if any TTW, so the call was made to move to TTW space to pull their ships after us as well.

We had no idea how easy it was to take down HQ's in this game, or we probably would've sent a bigger force and just made a fast dash straight for the HQ's. The reasons we stayed and tried to take out TTW HQ was A: it was going down really fast, B: Our base was nearing destruction, and C: MCA HQ was far enough away we wouldn't have made it with enough ships to do much. We had a slim chance of taking out TTW base once we began firing, our own base was about to bite the big one, so there wasn't much point in us trying to do anything else, and the fastest route to MCA was straight through all the ships coming to kick us out of Eureka. We fully expected when we jumped into Eureka to just do a little bit of damage to the base each turn, and end up getting killed there. If we'd jumped in with 2 more ships, Eureka would have been toast.