Read any good books lately?

[SoiledWig]

So! What say you? What of it? Come on, out with it!

i recently read this here book called Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse. i guess it's supposed to be very famous, but until my girlfriend put it under my nose, i knew nothing of it. Not the greatest plot, but it's a powerful book all the same when you look at it as an allegorical vehicle for the author's philosophies. :tup:

i bet you're all salivating now. :yum:

[Gandalf_uk]

Im in to Discworld (Terry Prachit) Lord Of The Rings (J.R.R. Tolken) (Yes even b4 the Film Came out) But Discwold is my Fav Serios of Books Must buy a few more. :)

[Diablo]

I am reading "Kosten- und Leistungsrechnung", "Makroökonomie" and "Produktion" at the moment.....THESE are great books ! :bigeye: High quality literature..... :wierdblu:

[WingCommander]

I'm reading at the moment a recopilation of stories from Ramsey Campbell and others about Cthulhu and other characters of HP Lovecraft. Here is called "the Cthulhu saga" but as the publishers are from my country posibly it is only sold here, but you may found these stories elsewere

[Minos]

I'm tempted to name some great work of Literature but I know no one would be impressed (or believe me)...* :confblue:

In fact the best book I read in the last few months was for children (well, young adults) – Fire and Hemlock by Diana Wynne Jones. It's loosely based on the Scottish legend Thomas the Rhymer, but with a contempory setting; I very much enjoy folktales and mythology.


* I think the only piece of Literature I ever read was Silas Marner – it was very good actually.

[Minos]

I've just had an email (forwarded through this forum) apparently from a woman in Lithuania – but, being in Lithuanian, I can't understand any of it.

I hope it's not one of you lot winding me up... :wierdblu:

[WingCommander]

Originally posted by Minos
I've just had an email (forwarded through this forum) apparently from a woman in Lithuania – but, being in Lithuanian, I can't understand any of it.

I hope it's not one of you lot winding me up... :wierdblu:

I know personally a lithuanian guy but he is not here anymore... he went USA to play basket and lost contact since then

[SoiledWig]

Diablo, economics textbooks are great! I've got a couple of those and some environmental law books on my shelves so people who come to my house think i'm smart. So far, so good...

[Diablo]

Hmmm...I know! :grngrin:

That make people think you are a profi and a successful guy... :grntngue: :grngrin:

[tenebra_uk]

Apart from a book on differential marketing (:rollani:) I'm reading Dreamcatcher by Stephen King :grngrin:

SoiledWig, Hesse is not bad - go for Steppenwolfe ;)

[Minos]

Originally posted by Minos
I've just had an email (forwarded through this forum) apparently from a woman in Lithuania – but, being in Lithuanian, I can't understand any of it.

I hope it's not one of you lot winding me up... :wierdblu: I began to suspect that she had the wrong idea about me when her next email (mercifully in English) asked me to send my photo... :eekblue:

Since there could be no sane reason for this in an adult I tactfully explained that I was 44 and if she was looking for an online friend she should search the newsgroups for pen friend, student, school etc.

...it turned out that she's a 14-year-old schoolgirl...

Before anyone else says it, I know there are some men who would exploit such a situation... but not me, I assure you! :angel:

What I want to know is why did she pick me out? Or did anyone else on this forum get a similar email? :confused:

[tenebra_uk]

Nope, Simon, I didn't :grntngue: Maybe she misunderstood your love for animals :grngrin:

[Minos]

No! I've just worked it out!

It's the beard and eye-patch in my avatar picture... irresistible to young girls! :grntngue:

[Minos]

Originally posted by Diablo
Hmmm...I know! :grngrin:

That make people think you are a profi and a successful guy... :grntngue: :grngrin: But does this happen when people see your student research books?

...or do they just think "This guy is a poser!" :rollani:

[tenebra_uk]

Originally posted by Minos
No! I've just worked it out!

It's the beard and eye-patch in my avatar picture... irresistible to young girls! :grntngue:

I must admit that my little nieces have often asked me if you really look like your avatar :lolblue:

[Diablo]

Originally posted by Minos
But does this happen when people see your student research books?

...or do they just think "This guy is a poser!" :rollani:

I am not a poser ! My shelf and me myself stand for high quality ! :grngrin: :tup:

[Minos]

Originally posted by tenebra
Nope, Simon, I didn't :grntngue: Maybe she misunderstood your love for animals :grngrin: That's it! I've remembered!

Terry Pratchett again of course. I can't be bothered to find the original, but it went something like this:

"Pets can be a great comfort in times of stress," said the Patrician, "and starvation too, of course."This wasn't the first time he'd used the joke. Once again, not a verbatim quote, but close:

Vimes remembered how he'd always wanted a puppy for Christmas when he was a child. Mind you, they were so poor in those days anything with meat on would have done.

[Diablo]

aww...poor puppy...I fear the puppy will end up on my dish then.... :grngrin: :yum:

[SoiledWig]

it just goes to show, time and time again, schoolgirls find evil, patricidal mad scientists "dreamy." 4 out of 5 licensed clinicians agree.

...and now for something completely different...

Simon, if your literary bent these days is mythologically-oriented juvenile literature might i recommend C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia? That's assuming you haven't already read them long ago. (and this recommendation could apply to anyone, really) Ok, they're more fantasy than strict mythology, but they're a good read and an expansive world created by one brilliant, multi-faceted fellow, anyhow.
Then you can step up to his trilogy of science fiction works, and then on to his scads of works involving religion. i've often heard Lewis characterized as a "Christian apologist" in respect to this last category of books. i'm not sure he would have agreed, though. i really don't know whether the term is meant to be pejorative.

On a final note, i frankly equate religion with mythology in the first place. Every myth was somebody's tried and true belief at some point.

[Warspite]

...and the sooner this species stops waiting for Zog to intervene from above, the quicker we will progress..ahem..anyway.. :yum:

Bookwise, I just read Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut, one of those books you always mean to read, but never get round to. A stirring and Humane experience.. :angel:

Of course , I also found some books in the Library by some guy called Turtledove, about Lizard aliens invading Earth in the middle of WW2, and getting their bottoms kicked by the Red Army :devil:
Possibly the worst written books I've ever read, but worth a laugh

BTW - anyone ever read the Zombie Space alien books by Peter Hamilton? Page turningly brilliant

[SoiledWig]

Vonnegut! Yes, you can't go wrong with Vonnegut. i could almost feel some remnant of Dresden's devastation in WWII the cold November morning i visited there a few years back. Then when i read Slaughterhouse Five a couple summers later the desolate, pock-marked images all came rushing back. Flashback, reflection, personal fantasy and realism at its best, all rolled into one.

Later on i read a set of his short stories ("Welcome to the Monkey House") and the variety of subject matter in his tales was remarkable.

[Warspite]

He is obviously mad - that always helps.
Blake was completely Tonto , as was Jonathan Swift, and everyone else with a bit of imagination (come back Spike!)

John Steinbeck is about my favourite author, though frighteningly, absolutely stone cold sober, and nowhere near mad (if he had been mad, there may well have been an alien invasion in The Grapes of Wrath).


:bigeye:

[SoiledWig]

well then well then well then! i must check out something by Swift.

Speaking of Steinbeck, he's an author i've always "enjoyed" (for lack of a better term) reading but my parents have always hated his books. They found his stories to be too depressing. They are depressing, but they're believable, they're real, they're rooted in something worth remarking on. They're things that *must* be remarked upon. Why do people keep talking about the Holocaust? It's horrible, yet we must never forget it. Steinbeck's stories are mere tiny vignettes in comparison, but you know what i mean. Maybe i'm wandering a smidge. it's late. i apologise.

Steinbeck's style is indeed sober and straightforward; a welcome thing. But one might wonder if he was mad, too, in his own way. For one might argue any completely sane person couldn't bear to recall such depressing tales of the downtrodden and the damned so completely, without some effort (or non-effort) to slap on some hopeful or sunny artifice.

Madness and creativity seem to go hand-in-hand as things any outsider will never completely grasp. Maybe they simply have that common trait, or they're one and the same.

Or i may be suffering from low blood-sugar right now.

[Warspite]

You need some tea and cake pal..I'd let you have some of mine, but the crew would probably mutiny.

Steinbeck doesn't make me depressed - he makes me angry, which is what I think he wanted - readers full of righteous indignation, who would then go out and stomp on Nazis. And they did!

[Minos]

Right! You've got me going now!

Firstly, yes, I have of course read the Chronicles of Narnia. They are great stories, but I have to say I found the moralising a bit hard to take, at least when I re-read them when I was an adult. Rather a product of their time, I suppose – that aspect of them certainly seems dated now. That sort of thing is inevitable though, and I don't really hold that against him. What I DO find grates on my nerves as an older reader is his Christian symbolism in the stories. It was right over my head as a child of course, but as an adult and an atheist I think it's a pity that he couldn't have stuck to 'straight' fantasy. Like separating Church from State, one might say. Still, that's a personal thing; no doubt Christians would disagree.

Incidentally, have you read any of Alan Garner's children's fantasy stories, particularly The Weirdstone of Brisingamen and The Moon of Gomrath? I have a certain personal bias I must admit, as they are set locally (Alan Garner was born in Congleton, where I live). Again, this is a personal thing, but part of the reason I liked them was the flavour of British and Scandinavian myth... no preaching there; these elements are just part of the story, not part of a crusade to make religious converts of people.

But to get back to CS Lewis. DId I read his sci-fi trilogy? No! I have the books, and started reading them, but they were so virulently anti-science I found them far too irritating to continue. If you read them you'll know what I mean – science is the cause of all evil in the world; God is the only source of goodness... well, I won't launch into a polemic here, but the point is I found his attitude so narrow-minded and unimaginative I couldn't go on. And that's NOT just because I'm an atheist.

Anyway, that's why I foam at the mouth slightly when someone mentions CS Lewis. A contemporary (and personal friend) of his, JRR Tolkein, steered clear of sermonising in his books, thankfully (he may have been an atheist for all I know, but whatever he was, he kept it out of his books).

The equation of mythology with religion? Well, yes, I understand what you mean, but what most people mean by religion, rightly or wrongly, is contemorary religion – ones that people still believe in. Mythology (in the sense we're talking about here at least) is almost by definition what people no longer believe in. This is what makes if good material for stories – you can have bits of old beliefs without the emotive 'You are going to burn in Hell unless you worship the god in this story' aspect.

Quite apart from that, I simply like stories with an element of the fantastic or magical in them.

Which brings me on to John Steinbeck. I read The Grapes of Wrath, which I found almost unrelievedly depressing (as it was presumably supposed to be), and I resolved not to attempt any of his similarly-based stories, as I am not the type of person who enjoys gritty realism in works of fiction – if I want to be depressed about the human condition, I watch the news, or read non-fiction. OK, that's a bit sweeping, but generally this is the case. What is interesting is that Steinbeck didn't solely write in this way. He also started (though sadly did not finish before his death) a modern-English rendition of Malory's Morte d'Arthur – the first book he read as a child that he enjoyed, he himself commented. Now while I enjoy the often whimsical and strange (not to say humorous) elements of folktales, the romance of King Arthur is a very deeply moving story, that combines both the magical and escapist with a very human tragedy. Malory's original is too difficult to read for most people, but John Steinbeck's version, though not entirely faithful to the original, is a superb, I found very moving.

You will be relieved to hear that I haven't read any of Kurt Vonnegut's books (though I have of course heard of Slaughterhouse Five), so I'll leave it at that for the moment... :rollani:

[SoiledWig]

i must admit i read Narnia as a child but i have not reread them since. The moralising and Christian symbolism probably did go over my head at the time and if i were to reread them now i guess i'd have to take such things with a grain of salt. i can either be outraged at this apparent finger-wagging, or just tolerate it as his attempt to insert himself into the course of the narrative. Until i read them again, the way i react is up in the air.

i'm tentatively on the atheist side of the wall these days, yet peoples' views and interpretations of various religions or religion in general are still very interesting to me, just as long as they're not trying to tell me what to do at the same time. i don't like being told what to do. i sing in a choir at my school, first because it was required and now because i enjoy the music. The director is devoutly religious and his choice of repertory is reflected in that. He does not tell any of us how we ought to think, though, which is refreshing. i can look at the words with a neutral eye and get into the thing just enough to get a decent interpretation of the music. Many zealots can take a lesson from him.

It'd be interesting to see any transcripts of correspondences between Lewis and Tolkein. They probably had some pithy discussions with wildly differing viewpoints in their day.

Warspite mentioned reading Steinbeck to get oneself angered and riled up. Perhaps one can use the same reason to read Lewis.

[Warspite]

I just want to point out that I dont get angry AT Steinbeck - just the injustice he writes about. And he isn't depressing - there are moments of raw resistance and refusal to be driven under that make me want to stand up and shout. *about here it would be nice to have a red smiley with its arm thrust in the air in heroic pose -use your imagination*

Anyway..

..just started reading a book called Northern Lights by Philip Pullman(part of a trilogy). Apparently its for kids (HA! I doubt there are any left who can read anything longer than a text message) but it is absolutely amazing - set in a weird version of the Enlightenment, and it has armoured polar bears (always a good thing). If these books really are for kids, they will give CS Lewis and Harry Potter a good kicking. (Giving Harry Potter a good kicking seems like a very good thing - never read the books, but was dragged to the cinema to watch 3 hours of poo.) :rollani:

[Minos]

The next in the trilogy is also very good; unfortunately the last is a little overlong – it's as if his editor has said "Pad it out a bit – let's compete with The Lord of the Rings." You'll (probably) see what I mean when you get to it.

But it didn't spoil the series as a whole, which was excellent. A good example of a book (well, trilogy) that can be read both by children and adults. It always irritates me to be put of the defensive when I recommend books that are classified as being for children or young adults.

Another example of curious categorisation is The Earthsea trilogy by Ursula Le Guin – quite how and why it got this label I don't know. Most children below about the age of 12 would find it far too dark. I suspect it goes back to the days when bookshop owners didn't know quite what to make of fantasy stories; they must have equated mythical worlds with fairy tales or something. I can remember well the days when you had to look for books like this (even The Lord of the Rings) under sci-fi, for heaven's sake.

It seems a great pity to me that many adults miss great books simply because someone has chosen to classify them as children's books, with the result that they never hear about them, or if they do, assume they're not going to enjoy them.

[Minos]

Originally posted by SoiledWig
It'd be interesting to see any transcripts of correspondences between Lewis and Tolkein. They probably had some pithy discussions with wildly differing viewpoints in their day.They weren't only correspondents, they met regularly as members of a club in Oxford called 'The Inklings', which held its meeting in the Eagle and Child pub (been there!).

Try looking at this link, and scroll down to the paragraph headed "The Museum of Oxford presents the Oxford Inklings: CS Lewis, C Williams, JRR Tolkein."

http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/COMPSAC/oxford/walks.html

Note the paragraph "The Inklings fervently believed in the usefulness of fiction to propagate the Christian faith. Tolkein always denied an allegorical content in his work, but readers will inevitably find within its framework of a created mythology, conflict between good and evil."

I think it's pushing things a bit to equate stories that involve the struggle between good and evil as being Christian allegories!

However I was interested to see the line "The watershed in the life of CS Lewis was his conversion to Christianity in 1929, before which he had been a confirmed atheist." That explains his vehemence in books such as That Hideous Strength I suppose. They describe this stage in his writing as being "anti-scientific,anti-intellectual" which sums it up pretty well.

As with you, I don't mind writers who are Christians (in fact it seems that Tolkien was a Christian), it's the evangelising in their books that irritates me. I prefer to reason out my own philosophy and don't like being told what to believe by others. It's a bit different in works like The Screwtape Letters, which were after all aimed at Christians, but to me it spoils works such as the Narnia books. This sort of thing does rile me, but not in the same way as John Steinbeck (or Charles Dickens for that matter), who wrote the way they did in the hope of making people aware of social injustice, not indoctrinating them with their religious beliefs.

[tenebra_uk]

Originally posted by Minos
It seems a great pity to me that many adults miss great books simply because someone has chosen to classify them as children's books, with the result that they never hear about them, or if they do, assume they're not going to enjoy them.

So true. One of them is Gulliver's travels - a pretty harsh satire turned into a children book... :rollani:

[Diablo]

Gullivers Reisen, huh? GREAT ! :grngrin: :tup:

[SoiledWig]

Warspite: i know what you meant about Steinbeck. i'm a little soft-headed, but not THAT soft-headed. Anger is anger, whether it's at a scene of social injustice or simply at being told what to do. i wouldn't get angry at Lewis directly, he's entitled to his opinion.
Some say "this stuff is depressing." Others say "No! it makes me angry!" Couldn't it be both? Upton Sinclair's The Jungle is the same way. Its purpose was to present the horrors of the American meat-packing industry of the day. Of course it angers one, or at least riles one up to try to do something. But isn't the initial horror at it all the impetus? Equating depressing with not good is a fallacy. It's an emotional response as legitimate as any other and shows the work was successful at garnering a real response. i think it's ok to have more than one visceral response to something.

Anyhoo, i will definitely check out that Inkling link, Minos. Sounds like fascinating stuff. "Evangelising." That was the word i was looking for when i said "finger wagging." i suppose the term is more suited to low-brow Americans like me and didn't really come across around here.

Speaking of finding allegorical material in things where it probably doesn't exist, some folks i knew in choir passed the time one evening during a tour by figuring out which characters from Star Wars lined up with characters from the New Testament. They were convinced Star Wars was intentionally a loose allegory of the life of Jesus. As i listened in, i think they had decided Obi Wan Kenobi was John the Baptist but they argued over who Jesus was. They invited me in to join them but i respectfully declined. i couldn't think of two things i could have wanted to discuss less.

[Warspite]

Religion and Star Wars in the same coversation - 2 good reasons to leave the room . It would probably be half-justifiable in court to throw a grenade behind you as you leave... :devil:

[SoiledWig]

Yeah, just a smidge nauseating. When they told me what they were up to, it was all i could do to keep from bursting out laughing. i held my tongue as the choir director :eekblue: was there as well. i can only assume he was there for the pizza.

[Warspite]

Just out of interest, what is so offensive about Detroit? :bigeye:
Is it like Rotherham or something? :devil:

[SoiledWig]

Nothing is offensive about Detroit at all. i simply haven't been there.

[Warspite]

:confused:

Now that makes perfect sense.. :confblue: ..yes, yes, I see your point....

And Minos, I dont want to read the third book in my Dark Materials trilogy now, and it's all your fault :bigeye:

[SoiledWig]

It's just a non sequitur and nothing more. It doesn't have to make sense and i don't deem it necessary to justify myself to you or anyone else. By the way, you might like to know i am also not a pimentoed olive nor do i possess delusions of pimentoed grandeur. As a mtter of fact, i am not pimentoed in any way. i have rather ambiguous feelings towards the spicy little garnish.

i would also fathom to guess that you are not under my bed right now. That's where i keep me kippers.

[Warspite]

Kippers under the bed is definitely one way to keep a 40,000 ton battleship from crawling under there....actually , I think there is a dead cat under yours as well..PONG!!! :eek:

I may have to pick a new location then - I shall have to consult the sacred texts of Spike Milligan for guidance, unless anyone has any good suggestions...

[2potscreama]

how about the land of the ning nang nong?

[SoiledWig]

A dead cat! Marvelous! Simply marvelous! Where's the rim-shot when you need it?

[SoiledWig]

it looks as though this thread is as dead as that cat by this point.



If only Detroit weren't such an awful place.

[Understudy]

Originally posted by SoiledWig
Nothing is offensive about Detroit at all. i simply haven't been there.

Originally posted by SoiledWig
If only Detroit weren't such an awful place.

Now you're just contradicting yourself.... :grntngue:



And yes ..... The thread is dead.!

[Warspite]

Long Live the Thread - lets get it moved until we have alll finished something worth reading.

I promise to visit this thread again after the next staggering book I read, and not before then - laters :D

[Minos]

Originally posted by Warspite
:confused: And Minos, I dont want to read the third book in my Dark Materials trilogy now, and it's all your fault :bigeye: Yeah... sorry about that, Warspite – I should have thought before I wrote that... :blush:

...however just because I thought it was the weakest of the three doesn't mean you would; for all I know you may enjoy it the most. Besides, you should read it anyway – as I say, I just felt it was padded out a bit too much. There's still plenty of good stuff in it.

[Warspite]

* I'm not actually here - I'm waiting till I've finished some more books. See you then.* :coolred:

[Warspite]

Yes - legitimately here cos I just finished a book - "D-Day" by Stephen Ambrose (he wrote Band of Brothers). :angel:

To be honest it was a bit flat - not a patch on The Longest Day by Cornelius Ryan. And if anyone is thinking of getting the new book by Anthony Beevor (author of "Stalingrad") - read the Last Battle by Cornelius Ryan first; you can probably get it for 50p in any charity book shop, and is a truly riveting , moving read.

Right back to the armoured Polar Bears :bigeye:

[2potscreama]

I'm reading "We Were Soldiers Once... And Young", but I cant remember off the top of my head who wrote it.

At some points it's sickeningly patriotic, but there are some good bits.

Like when they manage to Napalm their own men. Thats quite funny.

Friendly-Fire - Invented by the Americans. Someone needs to explain the concept that shooting at people on your own side isnt at all friendly.

[Warspite]

To be honest, shooting enormous mounds of high explosive off in any direction is hazardous to everybody concerned, no matter what side they are on :(

. I mean , with some of those cannon barrels, you really could have someones eye out :bigeye: