Some thoughts on performance issues

[Silkius]

As mentioned elsewhere, RCT3 runs as smooth as a greasy sausage down a soap sud slalom on my PC - but I just got back from a mates who was having real probs with it and others. (note to self: must remember to start wearing the 'No I won't fix you -ing PC' T-shirt) :devil:

Anyway, his whole system was a bit of a mess:

1: He had 500mb of RAM BUT he also had more progs running in his system tray than I probably have on my whole machine (ok slight exageration...but still) A quick task manager run showed he had less than 200mb free (which is nothing by todays standards)

2: His drive was very badly fragged - YES he had 30gig free space, but he had also recently uninstalled and deleted loads of stuff and just plonked the new game straight in - result? A game that relys on 1000's of scripts and operations being spread all over the place (in pc terms) even if your drive is the latest SATA or RAID this is gonna really hit performance.

3: Drivers were so out of date I expected to see pairs of animals residing there.

What I did, (this is using XP )
Backed up - set restore points and then
Removed every Sys Tray prog he really didn't need. (i.e. most of them)
Uninstalled the game(s)
defragged his drive (about four times - it really was that bad)
Made him buy adaware - installed it, ran it, removed the 200 redirect, hijacking, and trackers it showed up. (he was complaining how slow the net was too) also stuck in firefox for him

Then downloaded installed drivers etc., (including SP2 - the latest ATI and NVIDEA drivers reccomend it - if you read the readme - I normally wait for about 2 weeks after a new one comes out before I use it)

I then created a new login account called Gamer - in which I selectivly stopped many unessesary progs from starting up in - I keep meaning to do this myself, creating logins for work, web and home each using the best resourses for each - it takes an age, but its really worth it to get the best out the PC.

I then (at last) re-installed each game and they all ran 100x better. (and his is about half the speed of mine with a 4200ti compared to my 9800 radeon)

I would say the Memory and Fragmentation of his drive were causing the biggest problems especially for games like RCT3 (JPOG used to be the same) unlike high rate FPS games these not only demand a fair bit of graphics for rendering the 1000's of polygons/shadows etc., but also run 1000's of ai scripts all at once. This type of game hits all four main resources at once, processor, graphics, memory and disk.

With a game like Doom3 the most ai scripts you come accross at one time is probably a couple of dozen at most, as most others wait for triggers to activate - this allows most of the game to run by stealth allowing the resources to concentrate on the now!

wheras RCT needs to run them all - all the time! Often resulting in changes in animation for each - if your files are scattered accross the disk it has to access each , and if the graphics file is also broken accross the drive it has to do this also - result? Animations and scrolling that appears to work in freeze frames.

This isn't new, it has gone back to many 3d games that required complicated script running, even iso RTS games like AOE used to really get bogged down if installed on messy drives when you tried to run large armies etc.,

Even the latest SATA drive still basically reads/writes the same way - and constant to and fro'ing across the platters not only slows your performance down, it decreaces the life of your disk.

Good graphics cards help, but it is still the basics that often get forgotton and can make your gaming pleasure less than good. Get into the habit of regular system maintenance - if you can- clean up and defrag your drive
BEFORE installing a new game - keep your system resources as free as possible - I still reguarly stop many of them before playing big games - the same has gone since the 8080 (my first PC) YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH RAM!

PS: just to show even old timers get caught out, when I uninstalled/reinstalled RCT last night I had two problems - the first I thought was a bug - but was instead my all too efficient anti tampering programs (ad-watch being one) The game kept stalling on installation, then I realised my ad-watch was preventing it from writing to the registry.
Second, I uninstalled RCT and then re-installed it - forgetting that between the first install and removal I have moved, and removed about 20gig of files - Last night I kept noticing some tempory pausing in the game I hadn't seen prior to the new patch- but this morning I started to run a defrag (part of weekly schedule) and instantly saw why - I uninstalled RCT, defragged the drive (I sometimes find this needs 2 or 3 hits to re-arrange the files in the best order) and then put it back on - result ? back to the greasy sausage.

I also noticed, that (quite obviously really) things like the Camera Bloom and anti-alaising really hit the framerate on big parks - I like them on, but for general working I take them off and even step back the demands for speed - then when I want to look at my park from a purely aesthetic standpoint I whack em back on again.
I do this for a lot of things and not just games - Pretty is pretty, but it often gets in the way of work - (especialy the bloom) use the best setting you can put up with for general working then ramp it up to sit back and enjoy.

Sorry for the long post, but i have been working on and around PC's scince they became PC's (I worked on mainframes before that) and although things have advanced (imensley) the basics are still the same. And some of you probably do it, this is for those that don't!

[darkcrystal]

My laptop is new (got it 3 months ago) and there's nothing on it, really. So I doubt I need to defrag.

I don't want to install SP2 'cause I hear that's buggy.

I've emailed Atari Support. Hope they can help me.

[Justy]

got to admit didn't understand a lot of the post :rolleyes: but does all that stuff help a pretty pathetic specimen of a pc? I am fairly happy with the way it runs (albeit in low graphics mode - try it and have sympathy!) but could I realistically expect any improvement with all that 'stuff'?!

System = 1.6ghz, 512 ram, 64mb Radeon 7000:rolleyes:

ps. what is JPOG?:)

[Bebop]

Originally posted by darkcrystal

I don't want to install SP2 'cause I hear that's buggy.

I installed it, then formatted my HDD & went back to SP1, yup it was that bad... another M$ gimmick! :-(

[Silkius]

@ Darkcrystal: not wishing to diss your equipt, but I wouldn't even attempt to run a game like this on a laptop.
Personally unless it is like the latest ones from Alienware, I still tend to think of them as good for work (i.e. spreadsheets and word processing) and maybe games like Civ or Moo (Civilisation or Masters of Orion ) but not games or progs that rely on heavy maths calculations .

Same with PC's like the celeron - sorry they just don't cut it. Laptops also just don't have the cooling capacity of desktops - and even my PC tends to sound like a jet engine after an hour or two of games like this (as all the extra cooling kicks in). But that is largley a personal opinion.

Also have never had a problem with SP2 (yet) - but I did wait untill this month to let them sort out the worst bugs. Same with drivers, I largley went for SP2 'cause ATI say that latest set requires it.

@ Justy - JPOG = Jurrasic Park Operation Genisis = one of the first tycoon type games that really attempted to use 3d in this way - again it either ran like a dream or a dog - depending on the PC setup. If you kept the game standard (which was albeit pretty limited) it usually ran well, however, once you started modding the scripts' to up the limits on items you were allowed to place (which made it a much better game) a busy park with lots going on could even halt my beast (which it was at the time) .

Defragging
Think of it like putting lots of things in diferrent draws all over your house compared to filing them all in one draw.

You start off intending to keep all your bank statements in one draw, but that draw gets full so you start putting them wherever there is space.

Then think about having to look at these items one after the other but wheras your july statement is in the basement, your august one is in the attic - but when you look at the august one you realise you need to look again at the july one (which is still in the basement) which still wont make sense untill you take a peek at the September one which is in the kitchen.

This is what happens to files on a hard drive over time - defragging is like clearing out your draws and puttign them back in at least the same room. What I mentioned above was more like cleaning the room first so you had one draw to keep them in. To your pc its a lot easier (and much easier on its legs) :biggringr


Your PC has main functions kinda like this:

Hard Disk = A big filing cabinet and large notepad for doing sums it can't do in its head.

Processor ---- Very big calculator that can do lots of sums at once - better ones like true Pentiums & Athalons are ambidextrous and are better at also doing equations - the better ones have a bigger notepads to help them (cache) and can do a bit of doodling while their at it.

Main Memory (RAM) - How many sums it can do in its head before needing to write some down on paper. (the hard disk)

Graphics Card - not only does sums - it draws too some processors aren't as good at doing the picture sums - so they hand the half done ones to the graphics card -

Video Memory - Like PC memory but for adding up and drawing -

Now -
Games like civilisation - which largley run lots of scripts (instruction sets - basically 'if this happens do this' 'if that happens do that') Don't need much raw processing power (hard calculations) The graphics are quite basic so the video card can do its sums easily (and do other things while it s at it)

Games like Doom - Not many complicated scripts (Big bad kill) and most are triggered (no point all of the baddies in the game waking up untill they are needed (i.e. your in the next room) but lots of graphical ones (textures, rooms, particles - i.e. explosions bullets) - are much more demanding on the high end maths calculations and of course graphics - but as most of it is on demand - a half decent gaphics card and processor should handle it (albeit not quite as pretty as top end)

Games like JPOG & RCT3 - Not only does this have to calculate lots of graphics like textures, particles shading and lighting. (in 3d) - It also has to run many scripts too (what the peeps are doing - shop sales etc., etc.,) All at once -
If you have 1000 peeps in your park - you have 1000 little scripts going: what do I want? what do I do? what do I need? Which is combined with all the scripts for coasters, events etc., etc., and all added to the grahics intructions which are waiting for the results from the script (if peep is happy draw peep jumping)

So:
The better organised your drive is, the easier it can find all those instructions. (De-frag)

The more memory (RAM) you have the more scripts (simple sums) it can do in its head
So the less little silly progs you have running in the background the better for your PC.

The bigger and better processor = more sums it can do without having to hand some uncompleted ones to the graphics card.
The better Graphics card you have = the quicker and better it can draw those results.

This basically means your PC is doing everything it was designed to do at once. So the less it is also trying to do the better

The seperate login is a little awkward to do - But basically the idea is - you don't really need printer watching, anti virus, ad watching, and other background monitoring things running just to play a game (unless you play online - which is a diferent ballgame) -
So even though I have 1gig of ram - If I am playing seriously (i.e. not just a 5 min game) I like to shut everything down I don't really need - the sys bar is the one at the bottom right - often with loads of little icons in telling you it is running lots of background programs (what we used to call TSR's) If you know someone who could do a seperate login for you - you can basically set up a login (account) just for gaming, whiich does not start up any of the progs you don't need (but if it doesn't fire up things like Anti Virus software - never use this login to go on the net.)

[darkcrystal]

I'll try installing RCT3 on a PC then, if my laptop isn't suitable.

[Justy]

Thanks! I defrag about once a month but thats about it on maint. JPOG (thanks for explanation!) runs fine on my PC but again probably on low graphics setting. To be honest as long as the graphics are reasonable I am ok. I am much more interested in the gameplay and the little details - things like popping peoples balloons, changing the colours of the balloons etc! Girly eh? I have never really caught on to the whole 3D hysteria :rolleyes:

[Bebop]

anti-alaising is the biggest problem for slow downs on 3D games unless you have a very gfx card good card your asking for probs.

Im running on a P4 3.2 (HT) & 1024 ram & ive got an o/c FX5600 Ultra.. My game runs smooth with all options on high until i select AA above option 1 which is because of my gfx card, but i aint gunna go out & spend a good part of £300 so i can have AA in most my games :-)

My pc is a shuttleX ... built it about 2months ago & was waorried about over heating etc.. but its been great.. no more big beige boxes for me..jus small black cube :-)

[Silkius]

Originally posted by Justy
To be honest as long as the graphics are reasonable I am ok. I am much more interested in the gameplay and the little details - things like popping peoples balloons, changing the colours of the balloons etc! Girly eh? I have never really caught on to the whole 3D hysteria :rolleyes:

Not really girly - one of my little moans is that you can no longer alter umbrella/hat colour and t shirts aren't there.

Would like to see them back in an expansion preferably with custom mapping (i.e. ability to add your own logos - this shouldn't be that hard in 3d)

I agree a game is more than just graphics - it is all about playability - but if I can have both all the better!

@ Bebop - Have looked at those small cubes and not got for precisely the reasons you mentioned - might look again in the new year (Wifes PC is up for a re-build)

@ Darkcrystal - hope you fair better on a regular PC -- If/When I get time I will try and install it on Wifes PC (only 2 years old, but alrerady a dinosaur) and see just how bad it is on hers.

[darkcrystal]

The PC I tried installing on is new, yet the graphics hardware doesn't meet the minimum requirements to play the game.