multiple simultaneous attacks per item [Archive]

phoenixstar

10-12-2004, 01:12

F-15's, Apache's, B2's are ingame, but if this game shows the future of warfare, will these aircraft be able to strike more than one target at the same time? B2's today can be equipped with JDAM'S (gps-guided bombs, 80 of the 500 pounders), each capable of individual targeting. Would you guys consider allowing a single aircraft to hit multiple targets simulatneously. AND if you guys are worried about balance, then just reduce the hit damage when this is done. All I can say is that if this is done, you will blow people away. Check out the forums of different C & C generals mods and you'll see how many times this has been attempted with no success. They've used scalar targeting but that just spreads projectiles without individually targeting the specific enemy.

Another good example getting the MLRS ingame, using the ATACMS with BAT submunitions to individually hit targets.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/atacms-bat.htm

AgmLauncher

14-12-2004, 19:46

I want to say that these attacks are special strikes that have an area effect, like in C&C Generals. That's the easy way to get them to work. It would be cool if the AI selected multiple targets within a specified area, but missiles with large splash damages work just as well.

phoenixstar

15-12-2004, 23:26

I know that Generals uses an area strike, but the cool thing would be if they get away from the limitations of Generals. Wouldn't it be amazing to see a B2 launch some precision bombs that each hit different targets within the area that has been designated for a strike. So it wouldn't hit anything outside of the targeted area, but if there are 10 tanks in that area and there are 10 bombs, each bomb hits a separate tank. I find it hard to believe we can do this in real life, but not in a game.

Or how about a cruise missile that carries smaller missiles that each will then hit different targets. Again most people will complain about overkill, but then it's just a matter of how much hit damage they give to each one.

AgmLauncher

15-12-2004, 23:58

Im sure it's easy to do this, but it might be a matter of balance. A feature like this that's over-used in too many units might make a particular faction overpowered, or too reliant on those special strikes. Plus it is kind of nice that if you're good and have good reflexes, you can get your units out of the path of the bomber to save them. It might be a cool upgrade though.

In CCG, the Laser Guided Missile upgrade didnt do any guiding, just a 25% increase in firepower. It would be cool if a LGM upgrade allowed for the pre-targeting of multiple units in an area before the weapons are fired.

nastykiller

16-12-2004, 12:40

The game should be made more like the book... I've read alot of DB's books and he uses alot of really high tech stuff like the machine person with super high jumps and fires projectiles.... and also there are tons of planes and they have high tech bombs...

phoenixstar

16-12-2004, 14:49

you're right nastykiller. That's my point, if Dale Brown is writing a book related to the game and vice-versa, why not include the high tech missiles that are part of his stories? As I mentioned before if Eugen just makes sure they balance correctly, there won't be overkill, but you WILL have incredible gameplay and eye-candy. After hitting multiple individual targets, they'll have been softened up and can then be further attacked by nearby ground infantry. Plus since these are precision bombs/missiles, you won't have to worry about targeting friendlies in the area.

On another related note, Eugen should try and make their missile SKINS as accurate as possible. I've already seen missiles launched by A10's and F15's that look like Sidewinder air-to-air missiles?! Why not make the skins look like Maverick missiles? How about making the Apache's missiles to really look like Hellfire missiles? The point is if the graphics and game is next generation, use this for full effect. Military gameplayers will recognize and appreciate the difference.

phoenixstar

19-12-2004, 02:30

Originally posted by nastykiller
The game should be made more like the book... I've read alot of DB's books and he uses alot of really high tech stuff like the machine person with super high jumps and fires projectiles.... and also there are tons of planes and they have high tech bombs...

imagine a conventionally armed icbm with multiple warheads coming in like in this attachment.

phoenixstar

19-12-2004, 02:38

[i]Originally posted by phoenixstar
Another good example getting the MLRS ingame, using the ATACMS with BAT submunitions to individually hit targets.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/atacms-bat.htm [/B]

or check out this picture of a test of the sensor-fuzed munition which is carried in a missile or bomb. The bomb holds I think 4 dispenser, each dispenser holds 4 munitions which then attack tanks and other vehicles, attacking their weak top armor.

Let's see this in game.

nastykiller

19-12-2004, 14:02

do the game developers really look at the forums? they can get really good stuff out of it.:p:
I really think they should follow more on the book than be creative because the book is really good and if u follow it then u will have a really realistic game instead of a copy of Generals

phoenixstar

19-12-2004, 14:56

Originally posted by nastykiller
do the game developers really look at the forums? they can get really good stuff out of it.:p:
I really think they should follow more on the book than be creative because the book is really good and if u follow it then u will have a really realistic game instead of a copy of Generals

That's what I'm worried about. The forums have been up for what a week and not a single response. I thought at first maybe they didn't like some of the topics, but to not respond to even one question, it makes me think they set it up just to keep the masses quiet.

AgmLauncher

19-12-2004, 21:56

The US forums seem to have response by the Atari reps for Eugene. It's too bad that they split up the US and UK forums.

Cymru

20-12-2004, 04:06

link to US forum plz.

AgmLauncher

20-12-2004, 20:09

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=354

phoenixstar

23-12-2004, 08:59

Originally posted by phoenixstar
or check out this picture of a test of the sensor-fuzed munition which is carried in a missile or bomb. The bomb holds I think 4 dispenser, each dispenser holds 4 munitions which then attack tanks and other vehicles, attacking their weak top armor.

Let's see this in game.

OK, I did my homework and I found a link I want both readers and game developers to take a look at. This is a weapon we currently have in service. Not many, but we do have them. Think how cool it would look if this was in the game with all the animations. This implies that each submunition would hit a separate target.

If readers think I'm too focused on the high tech, go check what Atari senior producer Henrik Strandberg said about the game, it's a peek into the future of warfare.

Anyway here' s the link, prepare to be impressed

http://www.pioneeraero.com/1-9_bat.htm

KingsRevenge

02-01-2005, 00:37

Dang, that was pretty friggen cool :) thats one weapon I would like to see in the game.

phoenixstar

02-01-2005, 01:22

Originally posted by KingsRevenge
Dang, that was pretty friggen cool :) thats one weapon I would like to see in the game.

You know we actually used that last year in Iraq. Some ground troops asked for close air support and I believe it was a B52 that dropped just one cluster bomb unit that was equipped with those SADARM submunitions and it took out a large group of tanks. After they saw those hits, the surviving Iraqis surrendered. AWESOME!

5*General

03-01-2005, 23:44

I don't expect individual targeting from air, but on the ground it would be good to see units have multiple weapons like in DoW.

phoenixstar

22-04-2005, 19:03

Hi guys,

Hoping you could look at this again and chip in on some ideas for high tech weapons you'd like to see in the expansion.

Also tell me what you guys think on having a single plane or even missile being able to hit multiple individual targets at the same time. ;)

Andysan

23-04-2005, 12:45

phoenixstar

24-04-2005, 00:06

lets not get too carried away here, id like a military rts to be realisitic, machine men jumping on top of buildings is getting rediculas come on guys wake up, your not kids. whats next laser guns? and teleportation? it will kill this game if it ott.imo :lightbulb :tdown:

Who's talking about that on this thread. I gave links to show all the ideas I proposed are either actually already in service or will be.

Machine men, are you talking about the SHIELD units? That's actually something the Pentagon is working on.

Cruiser1068

27-04-2005, 10:14

I know....lets have an upgrade option, call it DEFCON 0, when you get it you press the button and every single unit and structure on the map outside your own base perimeter immediately explodes into dust.

Whats the matter?

Kiev_Axe

27-04-2005, 10:57

Very informative post cruiser. THis coming from mr "Why are Delta forces (DEFCON 0) units so strong vs Commanches (which are not designed to fight infatry at all).

Lets all have a game where we sit and camp for 50 mins wiht no action, becasur thats a LOT MORE INTeresting then actually attacking and having a war.

Heck, you could paly it out like a cold war, and at the end of the game, before any aciton has taken place, and you each have 50 thousand supoerweapons, one of you can buckle under the pressure at the pure threat of a nuclear war, and simply surrender.

Cruiser1068

27-04-2005, 15:42

Yeah, well as any one else would have worked out I was being sarcastic about the superweapon idea...... but then it doesnt surprise me that you didnt pick up on that.

phoenixstar

28-04-2005, 02:01

Yeah, well as any one else would have worked out I was being sarcastic about the superweapon idea...... but then it doesnt surprise me that you didnt pick up on that.

I thought you were being sarcastic, but if you see this thread as solely about superweapons that's not my point. I want to see weapons with incredible animations and particle effects. If for example, the ATACMS missile with BAT submunitions seems too overpowered, it's just a matter of the devs. making the hit ratio not too strong. The point is seeing cool weapons and their animations. Take for example the Wolverine cruise missile. I bet even if it were less powerful, people would still love using it, not for its powerful attacks, but for the level of detail put in the launch sequence animation, or the awesome looking particle effects when it goes off. :tup: