Why, oh why? Still turn-based?

[meric_dern]

I enjoyed the first NWN, but never really liked the turn-based aspect.

I got really excited when I discovered NWN is coming out, but then I discovered it is still turn-based... which I fear may have put me off.

Just having recently started playing Oblivion with its excellent combat system, I just don't think I could enjoy turn-based combat again.

Anyone else feel the same?

[christoph9]

Oblivion's battle system sucks big time! 98 percent of the time you can't tell what your swinging your sword at. NWN has an awesome battle system. Don't play the game if you don't like it then. Obviously you do not know what a good system is.

[NWATA]

Turn-based combat suits his game the best :respect: Just imagine having to quickly pick spells while trying to aim a bow and arrow weirdblue

[Jazz-Vancouver]

D&D is turn based, if they made it real-time, it wouldn't be D&D

[nashadoe]

wait, maybe I'm confused.

Isn't turn-based just an option?

My NWN doesn't pause after each round, it's continuous action. Any other game like NWN I've seen has given you the option to do things either way, no...?

[christoph9]

Turned bases mean that each character and monster alike have "dice" they roll to represent attacks and the like. You get so many attacks per round. examples: baldurs gate, everquest, nwn

Real time: Hack and slash <-- Duke nukem, oblivion, mario

[Zimith]

I suppose it has to do with NWN2 using the d20 system? :)

[lordsarkhan]

NWN has an awesome battle system. Don't play the game if you don't like it then. Obviously you do not know what a good system is.

Ditto

D&D is turn based, if they made it real-time, it wouldn't be D&D superg

And Ditto

[Gaspode]

I always liked the turn-based system ... it was sorta-kinda the real DnD. I also play GW and Morrowind ... but NWN system still seems the best.

[Goodlaugh]

Turnbased is good for NWN but they should make it more active like in Star Wars: Knights of the old republic. Even though most of the moves in the swordfighting didn't count for anything like damage and such it made the whole fighting much, much more entertaining.

[Lorft]

I agree, in the original NWN combat was a bit boring. This was mostly because a lot of character classes didn't have a whole lot of things they could do. In multiplayer this wasn't so bad, it left time to talk but in single player it was often frustrating as your braindead companions just did silly things while you were more or less powerless to stop them.

However NWN2 gives you full control over your companions , which means up to four people in the main campaign. So although the game is still turn based there will be a lot more to do. If you have played Baldur's gate, the gameplay in NWN2 looks to be more akin to that than original NWN (which is a good thing :) ).

Should be a lot more fun.

Lorft

[tzeraph]

I enjoyed the first NWN, but never really liked the turn-based aspect.

I got really excited when I discovered NWN is coming out, but then I discovered it is still turn-based... which I fear may have put me off.

Just having recently started playing Oblivion with its excellent combat system, I just don't think I could enjoy turn-based combat again.

Anyone else feel the same?

Ahhh, come on, you couldnt be that surprised about that now, could you?
As many say, NWN are built upon the D20 system and that is why it is turn based. Many also say it wouldnt be D&D if it wasnt turn based, but Ill take it one step further and say that it wouldnt be NWN if it wasnt.

On the contrary to many people posting here i'd say: Buy it!

If you can come to terms with the turn based combat, this game is one of the mayor event for many years to come. Shouldnt miss that, should we? Huh? ;)

So peace out, buy the game and enjoy :)

So sayeth the wise Tzeraph

[tanita]

nwn(2) claims to be "pen&paper put into your pc". beeing turnbased is the _only_ appropriate way to adept d&d rules to a computergame, and actually some people even like it :-)

please don't mistake nwn(2) for an action shooter, it isn't, can't be without breaking with d&d. there are quite a lot of action games around, but nwn(2) is unique in it's way... well, not quite, as now there are two of it :-D .

[Nightmist]

While it may be turn based in a way, it's not truly turn based. In a turn based game each combatant wait their turn, unlike NWN2 where everyone acts at the same time.

If you want to play a roleplaying game with true turn based gameplay, I suggest the Fallout series or Temple of Elemental Evil.

[tanita]

so it's not as turnbased as the word might suggest, but it's still "turnbased enough" to annoy some of the more action-oriented gamers...

but correct me if i'm mistaken: in nwn2 there's still an initiative roll deciding who's action comes first (and could therefor cancel others) ?

[Nightmist]

so it's not as turnbased as the word might suggest, but it's still "turnbased enough" to annoy some of the more action-oriented gamers...

but correct me if i'm mistaken: in nwn2 there's still an initiative roll deciding who's action comes first (and could therefor cancel others) ?

Yes, I agree that it may be "turnbased enough" to distract some people. But when you try it out, you'll soon notice that there are enough things to take care of for most character classes. Take a paladin. With Power attack you have to adjust if you want to hit hard and inaccurate or not, with feats such as Knockdown and disarm you have to decide if you need to/can use those with your opponent. Likewise you have Smite Evil you can use, and decide when to use since you only have so many per day, and possibly a number of other spells and feats and powers you can use in a fight. In Oblivion you couldn't do much other than hit normal or hit hard, or block (casting spells aside). So personally I don't think the "turn based" system used in NWN2 is boring.

Initiative rolls decide when you attack in the course of a round. A round is six seconds, and you can have anything from 1 to 6+ attacks per round. So basically if both combatants have 6 attacks per round (higher level, dual wielding) the one with the highest initiative gets to attack first, and then the next right after him. But since both have to attack once in the span of a second or less, inititive doesn't really matter too much in NWN - though it can matter if you have less attacks per round or if you open with a successful stun/trip/disarm/sneak attack. But you don't cancel the other's attack unless you kill/disable him with your attack :)

[kalniel]

I'm not fully up on the mechanics, but I thought NWN1 actually used an asynchronous turn-based system. In D&D a round is the same for everyone, and initiative determines who goes first in a round. In NWN1 everyone has their own rounds (though they are all the same length), but when you start your series of rounds is determined by initiative.

Out of combat it's not really turn based, but as soon as you or the hostile creature decides to attack the game rolls intiative and starts whoever's is better off first followed by the slower character. Note if another character comes into the battle they start their rounds from when they attack/are percieved, meaning their rounds could actually start half way through other peoples rounds.

You can also reset your round marker through various actions, for example unequipping and equipping a weapon.

As a compromise for a computer game I think this works pretty well - most of the time it's basically not turn based at all. You only notice it when you are in combat and find yourself having to wait during the 2nd and 3rd flurry stages of the engine before getting a hit in again. I'm told NWN2 does away with the 'dance of death' animations that fill in the spare time of the round, so it'll be interesting to see what's in its place.

If you want to try a less turn based version of D&D, I suggest a trial of DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) which I think does away with rounds as far as attacks go.

[tanita]

i admit that i like turnbased, simply as that's what i've gotten used to in pen&paper for many years. maybe it's also because i do not really like realtime action, i'm by far not quick enough to find the right keys, so i tend to press space in combat whenever possible (of course that's why i always lose in multiplayer combat on persistent worlds).

[Nightmist]

i admit that i like turnbased, simply as that's what i've gotten used to in pen&paper for many years. maybe it's also because i do not really like realtime action, i'm by far not quick enough to find the right keys, so i tend to press space in combat whenever possible (of course that's why i always lose in multiplayer combat on persistent worlds).

Heh, yes I know what you mean. Online you can't just pause the game whenever you need to. I have lost fight because of that, but the real reason was bad preparation. Like one time I was getting hammered with magic missile. Not a big problem, really, as they don't do THAT much damage. But since I couldn't find any good defensive spell in my quickslots (Shield or Ghostly visage) I started frantically going through the radial menu after having wasted some time looking for the quickslots. But before I could find it my hasted opponent had hammered me with enough magic missiles to get my down to nothing. All because I didn't prepare my quickslots correctly. The way to success when you can't pause is to quickslot everything important and know where you have it. If you run out of space, you can just use the radial manu for stuff like Bull's strength and non-critical spells.

But for singleplayer I usually don't bother with the preparing the same way (both for spells, healing potions etc. etc.).

And the exact machanic of how a round works for NWN, I'm not sure. But I've liked that system of part-turn-based since Baldur's Gate.

[Lorft]

Topic diversion!

Thankfully, it looks like the radial system is gone from NWN2. In theory radial control is faster to use and uses less screen space, but in reality I have always found it messy and easy to get lost in. Probably this is because the vast majority of computer programs use drop down menus.

Lorft

[tanita]

i don't know if it's possible to split the thread... but then it seems that the OPs posting has worn out by now anyway.

as far as i know from different demos the game interface will be more customizable than nwn1, and yes: radial menus are history. but i'll be fine with whatever menu system emerges, as long as i can map spells, items, actions and alike to keys on my extended videocutters' keyboard (facilitating 18 macro-programmable keys).

[lordsarkhan]

:nono: I think everyone is Over analizing everything way to much.Why cant you just accept the fact that this is the way the programers wanted the combat system to be. Just enjoy the game. If you cant do that then your just wasting your money. Hell go play a FPS rolleyesa if you need all that action. Americas Army Just relesed their new version and its free, Go play that. Me personally I like the system I allows me more time to RP which is why I love NWN so much :atari:

[tanita]

it's simple to say "go buy some other game", but then nwn is really unique, a genre of its own. if you want a multiplayer roleplaying game that allows you to create your own world from scratch _and_ is looking that pretty you'll have a hell of a time trying to find _one single_ alternative.

even though i like the turn-based combat i can fully understand the OPs desire to change a single aspect of the game to make it perfect - in his eyes, that is.

ah and lordsarkasm, we don't know if the programmers like the turn based engine themselfs, perhaps they'd rather had a more oblivion-like system but then again wanted to stay as close as possible with d&d.

[Nightmist]

ah and lordsarkasm...Burn!

Anyway... yeah. Turn based is fun in roleplaying games. I would welcome another go at ToEE-style play, just with 3d and less bugs and a story this time. But action-style real time controls can be fun, in roleplaying games as well as other games. I think Dark Messiah will be fun, and the only roleplaying game I am looking forward to after NWN2 is Age of Conan (which has real time combat).

I like both. And what makes roleplaying hard is other people and bad interaction interface (I tried roleplaying in DDO, but it was hopeless without proper talk and whisper channels, and no text over the head of the talker), not the combat system.

[lordsarkhan]

ah and lordsarkasm, we don't know if the programmers like the turn based engine themselfs, perhaps they'd rather had a more oblivion-like system but then again wanted to stay as close as possible with d&d.


First: its LordSarKhan that was funny i must admit but childish. I was not trying to be sarcastic. I try to be as polite and respectful and I do not purposly flame or try to set someone up with flame bait

Second: Programmer, Designer, creater, whoever it was made that decsion made it and that is that

Lastly: the whole point is mout. The game is in its final stages of release. Somehow I dont think they will be changing a working combat system just because a few people who dont care for role play want a hack and slash, where they can powerlevel even faster. It amazes me that some act so suprised by the fact the game is turnbased why it seems most of you have played NWN before. It should come as no suprise. How many of you have made a post giving NWN2 some well deserved props for some of the many improvements they have made like the graphics. But I know this will probable fall on deaf ears. so I will quit wasting my time.

But I think I would like to get a better feel for the style of play you like Tanita so maybe i will go check out your PW and see if its Rp or one of those Uber PVP servers

[tanita]

First: its LordSarKhan that was funny i must admit but childish.:) i take that for a compliment and say sorry, i didn't mean to hurt you. it's just that i sometimes am ... hmm ... childish :)
It amazes me that some act so suprised by the fact the game is turnbased why it seems most of you have played NWN before [...] But I think I would like to get a better feel for the style of play you like Tanita so maybe i will go check out your PW and see if its Rp or one of those Uber PVP serversi hope i'm not misunderstood herein, i for one really like the turnbased aspect, and of course am not surprised to find it in nwn2 as well - i appreciate it staying as i'm used to :)

and concerning our persistent world: there may be servers paying even more tribute to roleplaying than ours, but our staff's decided to put the roleplaying aspect above any engine-based aspects wherever possible. it turns out that the most powerfull chars are not that powerfull in terms of dealing physical or magical damage but are of great influence within the worlds social and economical systems. so it is always possible that some rather unknown but highly optimised char may find it easy to kill that mysterious thief guilds leader, but that won't have too much of an effect to the world, would perhaps even be ignored if it was not the result of an assault planned and prepared for a longer period of (online-) time and involving a significant number of other chars. of course everyone of us loves a good, loud, fast and fx-rich fight now and then, but then these are more of a "hobby" to most of our charakters, and almost always involve nsc or monster rather than other players.

so if you are really interested in our world - and german as well - feel free to come and visit us.

[keeana]

I know I'm looking forwards to getting this edition- finished all the best modules for the first :) I personally didn't have a problem with the turns system, but w/e.

[Erynn]

Of all the silyl questions, seriously. As above. D&D is turn based. This is a D&D. You don't like D&D, you don't buy a D&D game.... There is no adaption for D&D that is not turn based. It doesn't work. That's one of the important factors thereof. Ye gods.