View Full Version : Trouble with accessing presell content
Moonwind
21-09-2006, 21:07
Anyone else having trouble accessing the presell content? I mean the toolset etc that was promised one month before the release? It seems that when I click on the presell link I only get the login options. And if I try my atari login, it doesn't work. When I choose the register as new I get a blank page saying. Do you want the atari newsletter or something, or Logout. Anyone else having issues with this?
BlackHawk01x
21-09-2006, 21:13
Have the same problem, but solved it this way:
- Enter the Site: http://www.atari.com/nwn2/index.php
- Login at this site
- Now open the presell'content'site and you should be noted as 'logged in' again
For me it working :)
Uhm.. well open the presell'content'site over your own link best, the link over the login'screen from the link aboth at least not works for me myself, just gets me into the 'choose country of atari'-site.
so the counter has ran out (and is now propelling like mad) and nothing happend. sure, i'll give atari another hour or two, but then...
... i'll go to bed.
BlackHawk01x
22-09-2006, 00:06
Same here... the site just starts over and over again, kinda weird... hope it will work soon then *hopes*
InhumanOne
22-09-2006, 00:20
I truly hate whoever is responsible for this mistake be it atari or obsidian.
I was promised a toolset which has already been delayed, I paid for this!
give me my toolset! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
they better fix this very soon. Things like this just shows how little they care for their own fans.
ZyanKLee
22-09-2006, 00:50
Same problem with me ... this suck's.
Don't you guys at atari ever test your pages before setting them online?? So how could something like this happen? and why does nobody repair it asap ...
I wouldn't give you the money for doing such things. Perhaps there would be some lawyer, that like this case ...
are you all going nuts, guys?
in case you didn't notice... the countdown-skript counted down until _your_ pc-clock told it "hey, it's friday". turn back your clocks some hours, and it will count again :-)
you didn't really expect the toolset to be availably at exact midnight, did you? and even if you did... which midnight? german? uk? even australian (several hours ago)? or perhaps midnight in the usa?!
take a break, go to bed, calm down...
ZyanKLee
22-09-2006, 01:00
listen: is that my problem or fault? if the programmers were that stupid - using the localtime of the people ... hey thats their problem - but I have paid them for their promised toolset. they told me it would be available exactly ONE HOUR AGO - they broke ...
so ... money back?
In german something like that is called: Vertragsbruch - I guess you know what it means (for you are working on a german-languaged PW)
hmm...
so... what have you paid for?
let me explain it for you again:
you paid for getting the toolset _one month_ earlier than the full game is released, so please take out your calendar, go to november 3rd (as for the moment beeing this happens to be the estimated release date), then flip back the pages one month. now, please, take a look at the date... not really september 22nd, uh? wheter you like it or not, if we actually can download the toolset today we're getting it more than a week earlier than promised!
sorry, i'm not amused either, and doubtlessly atari has done a poor job, rather unprofessional and all... but please stay on earthbound. it's not as if your life's meaning depended on the toolset, is it?
No, actually they were promising that me that I get it once I receive that preorder package.
catsbuggy
22-09-2006, 05:08
Gift for presell +9 day .. WHY ?
Atari : Official explain for NWN2 community ?
ZyanKLee
22-09-2006, 08:52
what the F**** ... they noticed VERY VERY early ... what about telling us some days EARLIER?????
I promise that was the last game I bought from atari ...
bullshit
BlackHawk01x
22-09-2006, 13:39
Hm... well before you all go mad more, see it so:
'Would' they have released it now, and it would have been so buggy you couldn't do much with it... well would you have said "okay I cannot use it, but well: It's on my harddisk! yayyyy!!!"?
Nope, most would have shouted "Oh damn you, releasing such a bugged product!!! why you not waited until the bugs where taken away?! I want a patch NOW!!!!!"
So just calm down, nothing helps when you attack people who just do the websites, since at last Obsidian says when it's truly released since they're the ones after all who tells Atari "Too many bugs we need more time".
And well: I do not accuse Obsidian as well - I just accuse Atari'Germany but cause of other reasons rolleyesa - since I will rather have a working toolset than a mass of files on my harddisk I cannot use... as long as I get it 1 month before the fullversion release that is *smiles*
And before I'm accused to be paid to be so calm or something - everything seen on another game'forum where I and some other tried to calm people down *shrugs* - I am very disappointed myself, too since I wanted to see at last the toolset and some things inside, like the armor- and weapon-looks... but well I'm dissapointed of people who always shouts and screams and tell people names when something is delayed as well, so I try to be one of the calm'staying'people here, hehe :)
(Not that it is easy to take me my calmness away, at least in forums, before the keyboard I sometimes get mad myself, hehehe tonguegre )
aphrodite1
22-09-2006, 18:04
1. Refresh your counter. It's been changed and has not run out.
2. You were promised a toolset '30 days before game release'. Note: The game release is more than 30 days away now :(
3. As someone already stated, you would have been more upset to find a toolset download too buggy to be useful.
I'm not happy either, but no promises have been broken. And face it.. you're a gamer and we deal with this sort of stuff regardless of the game or game companies. Release dates get changed at least 80% of the time cause **** gets found in beta testing. Deal with it or find a new hobby :P
that stupid argument again, sorry, i can't hear it anymore.
no, at least me, i would _not_ be torn down by a buggy or even almost unfunctional toolset. that may be because i'm foremost interested in fileformats, the plugin-api and similar things that do _not_ depend on a fully functional toolset and are not likely to change again. but it also is a sort of simple logic:
which one do you prefer:
a) a final version of the tolset, released for download at the end of september?
b) a rough cut version right now _and_ a final version at the end of september?
and even _if_ you really prefer to wait for the full fledged product... well, no one would stop you from _not_ downloading it right now, right?
so, please, why can't we just get today what there is today? or give us the beta toolset, even crippled as far as necessary in order to keep gamesecrets in house.
but _whatever_ you do, don't think us stupid enough to cling to your "making it all better for you" gibberish!
I'm not happy either, but no promises have been broken. And face it.. you're a gamer and we deal with this sort of stuff regardless of the game or game companies.
and as for the promises... that's just not true. maybe it was not atari, who broke their promises, but promises _have_ been broken. in my (and a great deal of other germans) case it was amazon(.de) who advertised the preorder pack "inside you find a key, that lets you download the toolset" (sorry, translated by meaning, not literally). no date given, which usually means "right now". you first had to open the sealed box to find that you'd have to wait until "one month prior to game release" - but legally this clause is no part of the buying contract, as it's not visible to the buyer beforehand. so we _have_ been fooled by amazon, knowingly or not.
and even _you_ already got used to beeing lied to, it's still a lie, regardless how "common" these lies are today.
and i don't like beeing lied to, and will never let myself get used to it!
And, I still can't understand why no offcial excuses or statements were issued by ATARI on their boards. Plus, I did pay for the toolset only, so no refunds or anything that would allow describing the toolset as free.
All that we'll ever get here will be well-meant phrases from people loosely affiliated with ATARI, not even employees, as far as I know so far. They don't even bother to read this.
The whole process of publishing this game was so full of proof of incompetence, that I can fully understand why that company is on the edge of bakruptcy. (Examples? Two different presell sites, the presell sites from the presell box not working, two delays _hours_ before the respective publishing countdown finished, www.nwn2.com still not working for some pople (I can't open that address at all), non-existant PR)
And, NWN 2 certainly is the last game I will ever buy from that company. They don't give a **** about the people actually _buying_ their games.
InhumanOne
22-09-2006, 21:17
well I apologize for my earlier outburst but I still think it is not normal to say its delayed after the time it was supposed to be there.
Sure now it will be released a month before the game again, but they pushed back the release date of the game first. They should have said right away that the toolset would be delayed as well.
I truly, truly hope that Atari does collapse and gets taken over by a more competent company.
I never had any trouble with atari before, but first they want to put a stop on nwn1 support and now this.
The best would be if all developers would become able to publish their own games, that way bad publishers such as Atari and especially EA wont ruin the plans of great developers, and wont take credit for their work anymore either.
tenebra_uk
22-09-2006, 23:06
And, I still can't understand why no offcial excuses or statements were issued by ATARI on their boards. Plus, I did pay for the toolset only, so no refunds or anything that would allow describing the toolset as free.
All that we'll ever get here will be well-meant phrases from people loosely affiliated with ATARI, not even employees, as far as I know so far. They don't even bother to read this.
The whole process of publishing this game was so full of proof of incompetence, that I can fully understand why that company is on the edge of bakruptcy. (Examples? Two different presell sites, the presell sites from the presell box not working, two delays _hours_ before the respective publishing countdown finished, www.nwn2.com still not working for some pople (I can't open that address at all), non-existant PR)
And, NWN 2 certainly is the last game I will ever buy from that company. They don't give a **** about the people actually _buying_ their games.
As a matter of principle - whether you agree with it or not - Atari employees rarely post here. That doesn't mean they don't read the forum and, trust me, they do. More than you'd expect, in fact.
You did not pay for the toolset only, there isn't such a deal. Unless you inflict it upon yourself by pre-ordering from two retailers and then cancelling one pre-order. That'd be your choice, it certainly does not reflect the promotion.
Either than that, I'm glad you are all impeccable professionals working for impeccable companies where nothing ever goes wrong. Sorry if I'm hitting the sarcasm button but you come to a point where constructive criticism is one thing, patronising is a different story.
First of all, big thanks to Ten. A lot of mods would have gone on a deleting/banning spree by now, but people do need to vent :)
As this board is the closest thing we have to contact with Atari I thought I would try to highlight what I see as a potential issue in order to maybe help prevent it happening.
The toolset with all the art content is likely to come in over 1gb in size. Many thousands of presell codes have been sold , and at least a thousand of these are going to hit the download site as soon as it is released.
This level of demand would turn most company's fileservers into a pile of molten slag. It may be that plans have already been made, but if not there is still time to prevent this issue. Perhaps outsourcing distribution to the big server farms like fileplanet/filefront?
I would be oblidged if a question relating to 'Can the file servers cope with the volume of downloads for the toolset?' be pased up the chain :)
Thanks,
Lorft
@Tenebra: Well, then contact Amazon.de.
Their offer is not linked to ordering the game itself.
http://www.amazon.de/Neverwinter-Nights-Preorder-Pack-DVD-ROM/dp/B000H5UJCW/sr=8-5/qid=1158995218/ref=pd_ka_5/302-9949601-6296808?ie=UTF8&s=videogames
BlackHawk01x
23-09-2006, 09:41
@Tenebra: Well, then contact Amazon.de.
Their offer is not linked to ordering the game itself.
http://www.amazon.de/Neverwinter-Nights-Preorder-Pack-DVD-ROM/dp/B000H5UJCW/sr=8-5/qid=1158995218/ref=pd_ka_5/302-9949601-6296808?ie=UTF8&s=videogames
Uhm... even if I would like to have someone tell them *grins* Tenebra is not in case for german just for UK *nods* (besides when some weird people like me comes and bring her nicely to ask for us, too *hides* But in first place Atari-Germany needs to tell them...)
As a matter of principle - whether you agree with it or not - Atari employees rarely post here. That doesn't mean they don't read the forum and, trust me, they do. More than you'd expect, in fact.
Well, then maybe they should rethink their strategy to just let people write one post after the other as an add-on to one's executive's morning reading, and simply issue some statements from time to time. It doesn't require that much time.
Either than that, I'm glad you are all impeccable professionals working for impeccable companies where nothing ever goes wrong. Sorry if I'm hitting the sarcasm button but you come to a point where constructive criticism is one thing, patronising is a different story.
No, Tenebra. We all fail from time to time, everybody does. But you have to agree that there are nicer ways to fail.
Atari failed on that matter (one can't doubt that). All their customers in Europe and Asia already saw 0:00:00 as their countdown (that countdown still uses the system clock to determine the values it shows, which btw certainly isn't the best way to handle this). Many of them stayed up a bit longer, just to start the download before going to bed, not mentioning those that took a day off on Friday once they started to trust Atari that this time the countdown would work. Who waited for it? These are the most loyal customers. These are the people telling their friends about the game. These are the people who developed their own modules for Neverwinter Nights 1. These are the people responsible for 90 % of Neverwinter Nights sales after the first year of its release, and it was a longtime profit cow. These are the people who are responsible for that revenues. Which other games justify new editions to come out 4 years (!!!) after the initial release? These are not only customers, many of them are Atari's sales agents if you take a closer look on that matter.
And, nobody complains about the delay itself, even though it certainly isn't the bugfixing causing the delay. Come on, Obisidian designed the official campaign with this tool, it surely isn't that bad, even though I believe that Obsidian uses the additional days to polish it even further. Even if it was the bugfixing, then put a disclaimer on "9 days from now we'll publish the real presell toolset, but you can already obtain the beta toolset". It's not only bad PR, it's also stupid to withhold tools like these. All those custom content developers out there would use the additional time to create world or tools that would expand the abilities of NWN 2, thereby boosting the sales. Every additional day of development time these people get helps the game.
---
But, the main point is you may fail, you may hurt your customers feelings, their joy, as that clock finally went down to 0:00:00 .... when they were starting to think "well, they probably start publishing when it's midnight in the US" ... but then you better issue them a real statement including an apology (in fact on that website it says "in order to ensure a better product...", but this message is there since the last delay^^.
So, no, all of us fail from time to time, but it's a simple matter of decent behavior to take a stand afterwards and apologize. You don't have to be bright to do that, you don't have to have clever PR, it's only a matter of education and good will. I'm sure that this thought "we have to apologize" did come up on the mind of some people working for Atari. Not because they are brilliant marketing strategists, but simply because they're nice guys und girls.
So, what in the world kept them fro admitting their fault and simply say "sorry" and tell us a bit about the reasons? It's not too much to ask for, is it?
Uhm... even if I would like to have someone tell them *grins* Tenebra is not in case for german just for UK *nods* (besides when some weird people like me comes and bring her nicely to ask for us, too *hides* But in first place Atari-Germany needs to tell them...)
I appreciate what Tenebra does here, but then Tenebra shouldn't say that I get a refund. :-)
now that i've calmed down a little more after yesterdays deep frustration (exactly as parat said: first waiting for the clock to say "now!" in germany, then waiting for midnight in the US, and then again beeing let down... well, at least there was someone to give me an open ear ;-) ) i want to comment on several points - i hope, i won't get it all mixed up...
"toolset only"
i really don't know how the preorder process was meant to be, but at least in germany you can get the preorder-pack whitout having to order the full game. it's even on shelfs at media markt (electronics discounter) and others to take away for 5 euros. so unless one has to sign an order for the full game when entering the preorder-code at your website it _is_ kind of a "standalone toolset" for those who really do not intend to buy the game later. anyway that's not too strange, as with nwn1 the toolset was available for download beforehand, even without any form of registration or code.
of course most (it not all) preorder customers intend to buy the full game, i surely do (although i just cancelled my order at amazon.de because they say they want refund the preorder pack anyway).
"beta toolset"
at different sites different people explain that delaying the toolset again is only to our best, as no one wanted to have a toolset that's crashing every couple of minutes. while this _may_ be true for some of us, it _surely isn't_ for all of us. there are developers (like me) out here who don't even need a functional toolset at first, as we just want to have a look at things like file formats or the plugin api or the 2da's or module sizes or or or...
as parat and some others already mentioned there has to be some sort of toolset by now, be it the one the beta-testers were given, or the almost-final-but-not-quite-bugless version. i can't see a reason for _not_ giving that one out in advance, and i will continue to beg for it until i'm presented with either a download-link or a better reason :-)
"downloads"
someone (sorry, too lazy to scroll up ;-) ) brought up the question wheter atari's infrastructure will be able to handle the stampede likely to occur when you at last open the gates for downloaders. of course that problem is your's to handle, but then again it's us who'll suffer and get frustrated all over again if downloads stall or even break after hours, stopping at 95% of what is suspected to be 1 gb or more. assigning download-slots and/or using loadbalancing mirrors can help, but there's an even simpler way: just seed a torrent, it will scale according to the demand as every downloader contributes his/her own upload bandwith. if atari doesn't, community will...
"atari & forum"
sorry, but it's really a shame that atari don't usually explain themselfs at their own forums. a company dependend on internet and its users should really use it to give out first-hand information and get feedback in response. ok, i can understand if you don't like the sort of feedback you'll sure enough get for an official statement like "sorry, we're delaying nwn2 again"...
but in case you didn't notice: most of us here (at least the adult ones) complain _not_ because nwn2 is delayed again, but because of the way we were (not) told. it's all about credibility and explanations. perhaps you think "better say nothing then causing a riot", but it turns out that lack of information only leads to wild speculation and fuels anger and frustration much more than the facts ever could.
"tenebra"
as stated before, we really appreciate your beeing here, talking to us where atari themselfs should. you are the only sort of "open ear" we found at atari's lair, so we are all venting our anger and frustration in your direction, hoping some of it swaps over onto atari's desktops. you surely are of great mental strength, emotional balance and verbal disciplin - well worthy of a dozing atari ninja ;-)
tenebra_uk
23-09-2006, 15:13
Hehe, the dozing Atari ninja has just come back from her kung fu grading, so expect the "dozing" changing again again into the various injuries I'll be going through every week ;)
Ok, let's go through the points one at the time.
Regional promotions
As I previously said, in theory this is the UK forum and I should deal with the UK only. I am well aware that not all regional forums function nicely, we love the international touch (I deeply believe that this is what makes this place great) and all of you are most welcome, wherever you come from. The one thing you have to keep in mind, though, is that while everybody in the UK office knows me and when they see an email from me they open it and reply immediately, I have no other regional contacts and have to go to Atari Europe to ask for advice. Again, Atari Europe are fantastic support for me but, as you can expect, communication gets a little bit complex when I have to go to Central and then Central has to redirect me to the right person in the local office. Add to this the fact that I have a full time job and communication obviously happens during office hours - Atari's and mine. If you need a crash course in multi-tasking, sit by my desk Monday to Friday 9am-6pm.
It goes without saying that I do not have full information of all promotions across the globe. I can't, it'd be far too much to handle. If you have a specific question/issue outside the UK you can't find any answer for, firstly please try to contact your local helpline. If you find no joy, poke me and I'll do my best to help out - but remember to state what country you're talking about.
Atari & forum
Atari recognises how fundamental the forum is, this is why it's so open to criticism and you will never see me or any of the moderators pruning, deleting, editing, banning or warning people for expressing their opinions in an civil and articulated way. Apart from physically not having the time to be in the forum (they ARE busy bees, each product manager handles several titles, don't think they sit there scratching their bellies), Atari want to avoid having a strong, first hand presence as that would impact on the sense of community. That's why they use me to pass official statements. They come and read the forum and when there are critical issues I pass them directly to the Almighty Ones just in case they might have missed them. If they were here to personally read and write everything they wouldn't be left with any time to do any work. Sure you want that?
Usually that's the Community Manager job. Atari Europe, at this point, don't have a Community Manager.
@ Parat, there are no nice ways to fail. If one was to pick what and how to fail, then I'd suspect it was a deliberate mistake. Hmmm.
Specifically on the countdown, as you know it was confirmed via me that same day. The decision to change it came from the US when the Euro offices were already closed and there was no way that could be communicated.
Where is official statement and apology? In my email inbox, awaiting for one extra approval. I can't publish it without all the relevant approvals. I don't know what you guys do, if you've ever worked in a medium/large company then you should know that there are always processes in place and things need to be done respecting those processes. Personally, in my job, I get really annoyed the rare times that someone DARES sending out something that involves me and my work without me seeing it and stamping it. So now I'm sitting on a statement with 2 stamps of approval, one missing. Why is that one missing? I don't know, I don't know if the person was in the office, in meetings all day or in bed with the flu. Before you make assumptions maybe you should stop and think about all possibilities? As much as I understand your frustration, I think that sometimes you should sit back and try to digest the fact that things can go wrong and perfection is not of this world.
You see, I shouldn't even say this. Like in every circumstance there is always a code of conduct. In this circumstance, the code of conduct for me is to keep my mouth shut and my hands away from the keyboard until I have official things clean and tidy and ready for you. I only made this exception this one time (and will never happen again) because I am a bit perplexed that intelligent, mature people like you are forgetting that Atari is not just a logo hiding a nasty corporation, there are people behind this logo, people who, like you and me, are bound to err, to be sick, to misplace a piece of paper. Sometimes even an important one.
As for the Atari/Obsidian decision to wait for a polished tooset, think about how much first impressions count. With the huge success that NWN1 has been, how critical is it to give a good first impression? There are you, the hardcore, sophisticated fans who are going to jump and yell if you see buggy code, there is also a number of new people who have never played NWN in their lives and the last thing you want to put in their hands is something that is not pristine and impressive. You might prefer to get your hands on something resembling an alpha test because you have complete faith in the developers, not many people, these days, think that.
Hope I've covered enough. I need a nap now :hallucin:
thank you for your continued efford to sort things out and explain what we can't understand from where we are.
If you have a specific question/issue outside the UK you can't find any answer for, firstly please try to contact your local helpline.as you noticed, there are a lot of germans here, simply because the german part of the forum not even has a nwn2 section - and although AdminGER did some postings a while ago (s)he now has gone silent. if you knew whom to bother about "germany only" problems (like "does amazon.de refund preorder-pack?") we'd rather poke them instead of you.
Before you make assumptions maybe you should stop and think about all possibilities?that's right. but then remember we're the x-files generation, and therefor tend to suspect conspiracy whereever we sense too much official silence :p
As for the Atari/Obsidian decision to wait for a polished tooset, think about how much first impressions count. [...] You might prefer to get your hands on something resembling an alpha test because you have complete faith in the developers, not many people, these days, think that.well, there _are_ folks out there who don't bother using buggy code or would hold a crashing toolset against atari/obsidian if they got it on an "it's not ready yet, enter at your own risk" basis. that's why i've startet this thread (http://forums.eu.atari.com/showthread.php?t=42885) - let's see how many think like me ;-) .
then again you're surely right, most of your preorder-customers could lose their faith in obisidian ... but don't you think that delaying game and toolset again and again could have the same effect anyway? when talking about "first impressions", please consider the impression atari's already made by the way these delays were handled. personally i don't think there's much to lose, but a lot to win by holding out your hand to the community.
Moonwind
25-09-2006, 11:44
Oh dear what have I started. :P Seems the thread has a life of its own. My only trouble was that I couldn't login to the presell part of the site. When I finally could, it was still 3 hours to go. And now there are a few more days to go and apparently some more serious issues then not being able to login has come up. Personally I just walked by my local retailer and noticed the big signs about the preorder option. The salesguy even convinced me that if I chose the Limited edition I would get the disc with the toolset, while if I chose the basic one I would have to wait until the game was released. Now I am usually not that gullable but I guess I was to excited about it so it never hit me that the CD might not contain the Toolset itself but a key to download it, in a far away future... But the extra 14£ sure feels expensive for the merchant item or whatever they promised. Anyway I guess I just have to wait and accept that sometimes you makes some bad deals, so be patient fellow NWN fanatics. :salut2:
correct me if i'm wrong, but as far as i know at least in the uk you should get your preorder price refunded when you buy the full game later? and about your tricky salesguy: go, give it back to him. of course you get the toolset even in the standard version of the game, and you also should be able to preorder that one instead of collectors edition and still get the code to download the toolset (potentially from next sunday on) and use the "merchants friend" ability.
and as for your thread's life of its own... don't bother, that's nothing compared to what's going on at biowares forums!
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