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View Full Version : give us the toolset, please...


tanita
23-09-2006, 13:26
i'm sure loads of forum members are going to read this one, and i hope you guys at atari read along. first i'll tell you what i'm asking for, then i'll give you the reasons, and at the end i provide you with a cheap way to do it.

please, atari, give us access to the nwn2 toolset right now. give us the beta-toolset or the "work in progress" version of the final one, even though there are still bugs in it, even if you consider it disfunctional at all.

please continue reading about the reasons to ask for this:

nwn1 was a great success, still prominent on sales shelfs after more than four years. this is due to the large community of nonprofit developers creating tools, artwork and content for running "persistent worlds" all over the (real) world. all of us are eager to continue our work on nwn2, most signed for the closed beta, some were accepted, but the greater part of us were not.

so we settled for the second best way to get our hands dirty with the toolset: we went for the preorder packs. dates were given, first we knew only about september 7th (release of the preorder packs), then we had to find out that we had to wait for september 18th to download the toolset, which was then changed to september 22th and againg to september 30th.

most of us are running nwn1 roleplaying servers and are planning to switch them to nwn2 as soon as possible. but we are aware that there will be some obstacles to work around. as with nwn1 the community will find ways to add whatever is needed to make nwn2 fit for creating and running persistent worlds. some examples of tools/features in planning:

- dynamic download of changed map/walkmesh data to the clients
- persistent item storage
- mapping tool to break down large-scale landscapes into smaller maps
- module/map-size estimation and optimization
- web-based management of accounts and characters
- party-chat & group-mapping

most of these projects do _not_ depend on the toolset being fully functional, often it's just lack of information that put a stopper on development right now. especially fileformats, plugin-api and similar "cornerstones" of how nwn2 works are what we needed to start/continue our work. of course some sort of "developer information pack" or SDK would be fantastic, but even an only partly functional toolset would help us a lot.

as developers of course we understand that there may be bugs in the toolset and/or game that demand delaying both for another couple of weeks or even months. but in the meantime we could get started on our projects which _will_ be of great benefit to nwn2 and atari as it's publisher.

of course i know that releasing a prerelease toolset prior to the preorder toolset even complicates things, so here's a proposal as how to handle it:

just put together as much of the toolset as there is right now, compile a dvd-iso and label it "alpha material without warranty", then offer it for download as a torrent. then continue to fix the bugs and release the final one as a preorder-giveaway whenever it's ready.

shoefer
23-09-2006, 14:12
* signed *

RQScott
23-09-2006, 14:14
*sign* Full agree to tanita.

RQScott
Leading Tec-Designer of Persistent World Project Eiseninsel (http://www.eiseninsel.net)
Free Scripter of Persistent World Project Hochwaldallianz (http://www.hochwaldallianz.de)
Staff Member of Persistent World Project Eislande (http://www.eislan.de)
Hoster&Member of Scripters Consortium on NeverwinterNights2.eu (http://www.neverwinternights2.eu)
Hoster&Member of nwn2.custom-content.de (http://www.nwn2.custom-content.de)

BlackHawk01x
23-09-2006, 14:42
Well... I'm not myself into file-understanding, but I know what people can do with them to understand and often improve things for their servers sooo:

*signs*

Elminster1178
23-09-2006, 15:37
*sign* Full agree to tanita.

Parat
23-09-2006, 16:12
Yep, it would help a lot.

*signed*

cador2
23-09-2006, 16:24
signed

the toolset canīt be that unstable at the moment, couse obsidian created the OC with it!

release it!

Sylvhar
23-09-2006, 18:09
I second that. *sign*

Herzog
23-09-2006, 18:32
totally agree

Perth
23-09-2006, 20:29
I'd be glad about an imminent release too. Therefore: Signed, Tanita.

CCAP12
23-09-2006, 22:05
I agree with O/P.
The tool set must be functional in some capacity, even if there are bugs that caused the release delay.

To hold the toolset back to the 30th just because the original deal was for preorder customers to get the toolset ONE month before game release (and not 1 day earlier) is rather petty on Atari's part. So preorders get an additional 7 or 8 days ? BFD!!!!!!!!

Please just put it out in whatever buggy state is in at the moment and maybe release the bug free revision on the 30th.

I found this on Bioware forums posted by J.E. Sawyer, lead designer regarding the delay on release date:

"Fixing bugs. I will leave you to decide if the following things are worth waiting on:

* Shapeshifting causing characters to displace to different map locations and/or under the walkmesh.
* Attack sequence becoming jacked, resulting in a character executing six attacks with one swing.
* Auto-saves causing de-synchs in release .exes.

Stuff like that."


Sooooo.....nothing really out of wack with the toolset, you are just holding back to be in the 1 month window? Very poor choice!

ganjagohan
23-09-2006, 23:37
I don't think that this will work, but.....
*signed* ^^
Pleeeeeease !

christoph9
24-09-2006, 00:38
ya ill sign too **sign**

Ithalyan
24-09-2006, 03:33
Here, I have the official stationary for the petition! We can mail this to Atari! They will not be able to resist!

Petition Template (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3342/petitionkw8.jpg)

*signed*

PtiSinge
24-09-2006, 04:00
*signed*
Yes, just call it an open beta, that wouldn't be the first one, and that would remove the pressure of this countdown thing from the devs

tenebra_uk
24-09-2006, 09:25
Here, I have the official stationary for the petition! We can mail this to Atari! They will not be able to resist!

Petition Template (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3342/petitionkw8.jpg)

*signed*
lolblue: I'll send that to the Almighty Ones.

Rabenwald
25-09-2006, 18:55
*signed* - full agree

Taneli
25-09-2006, 19:55
I can live and wait for 5 days if that means for working toolset (meaning: what you build in your PW can be actually used when game is released instead of some "minor" bugs like: toolset crash every 30min or so. When you try to uninstall it your windows is gone at the same. When NWN2 is released nothing what you made in beta toolset will not work and so on..)

After all, if we now send this. They think and wonder.. ..let's say 3 days. Well, we might get not so working toolset what maybe kills your system like windows millenium and I BET everyone will be shouting at that point. Allso I bet atleast some peoples WILL say that game is bad and not working. Just becouse beta toolset is not working OK.

Just my 2 cents.

tanita
25-09-2006, 20:21
dear taneli, please read my posting in full, and try to understand that _to some of us_ even a toolset crashing right after clicking its icon would provide us with loads of information badly needed for e.g. developing tools assisting our (your!) world-building process.

i fully agree that most preorder customers do not share our needs, and of course there are people who might jump and cry if they downloaded a buggy toolset. but then no one's pressing anyone to do it. we don't ask atari for fullfilling the preorder-promise ahead of time, we just ask them to open up a little more and give those who _can_ live with a buggy toolset and _want to_ try make use of it something to play with.

and again i agree that this whole thread will be meaningless _if_ the toolset's ready for download at sunday, even me ca wait that long. but they could still find new bugs (and if so i really hope they delay again until the _final_ product is as done as possible), and then i hope someone not only expresses their deep compassion but also thinks of a way to make it more than words worth.

and one last thing: it's not as if i would print out this thread, put a stamp on it and send it anywhere... i was told, and i have no reason to doubt it, that at least UK officials are reading these forums, so to me it's enough to keep this thread open.

AstinusITA
25-09-2006, 20:33
*signed*
I'm agree with Tanita.


(I paid for the pre-order..1 month before the game release, I need to test the toolset for my mod/server, next time I don't pay for an Atari pre-order)

WhenDarknessReigns
01-10-2006, 09:53
*Signs*
I agree with her too, I even preordered so I can get my early toolset to work with and you guys keep breaking our balls and boobs over this. Come on now, Give it up already!


(If you break your word on this last release Date for the Toolset [Oct. 1st] I swear I'll never in my life or any other, preorder sh!tt from you or any of your subsidaries.)

Terest
02-10-2006, 12:12
****signed*****

Knight_Sir_Galahad
02-10-2006, 18:13
they already stated that they had a powercut, but still i would like them to explain how so many people without the preorder bonus were able to download the toolset.