View Full Version : Countdown fiasco...again
As you know, the countdown will reach 0:00:00 at different times, depending on your timezone. In fact, it has already reached 0 for the first time zone (Nuku'alofa in the Pacific, which is at GMT+13).
But does that mean that people can download when their counter reaches zero? Can the Nuku'alofans (assuming they have Internet access over there) download now?
No. That would have required some intelligence on Atari's part. Once the countdown reaces zero, you just get the screen "looping", until the "real" clock reaches 0.
WHY ON EARTH IS ATARI PROVIDING THOSE COUNTERS IF THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY MEANING WHATSOEVER?
I guess that Atari will make the download available at midnight, PST, or something like that, thus annoying everyone in the rest of the world, who have seen their counters reach zero hours before, only to discover that Atari did not deliver as promised.
But I'm not surprised.
The events of the past few weeks have convinced me that the people responsible for marketing NWN2, and for public relations are simply incompetent and cannot be trusted to do their job. They have managed to annoy the user community again and again - and they don't seem to care.
I run a software company myself (not a big one, only 50 people) but if I had any employees screwing up this badly, and annoying an important segment of the customer base, they would looking for a new job.
I was under the impression we were going to have an answer about this before today.
What exactly is the baseline timezone for "midnight" for Atari?? GMT??? EDT???
No official word.
My bet is on either GMT+1 or one of the American midnights. Unfortunatly my bet is also on the download servers melting under the strain of ten thousand people trying to download the massive file.
If I was a mod, I would have booked this week off on holiday :)
Lorft
The only correct way they could do it is to make sure that people can download when it becomes midnight for them, which means that there should be people that are able to download it earlier.
By having everyone think it starts when it's midnight for them, more people would likely start downloading at different times and therefor not flood the server(s) with download requests, so downloading could be faster.
I think they'll use the UK time (GMT) or nearby, if they go for American time (EST = GMT-5, but there's different timezones there) it'll likely be 6:00 here on sunday before it starts.
--- edit ---
Was multi-tasking a bit, so took longer to type this, didn't see Lorft's reply.
Also wanted to add that trafic would be horrible if it's going to be american's time. Think of americans starting to download at midnight and at the same time a host of annoying europeans in the morning... the horror!
tenebra_uk
30-09-2006, 15:29
I was under the impression we were going to have an answer about this before today.
What exactly is the baseline timezone for "midnight" for Atari?? GMT??? EDT???
I'm afraid we didn't get an answer from Obsidian.
InhumanOne
01-10-2006, 00:18
they really want us to hate them, they really give us enough reason for it this way. doing this once is not acceptable but twice.. :mad: :mad:
they can be glad theres an ocean between me and the headoffice of atari.
swe_wolfis
01-10-2006, 00:45
they really want us to hate them, they really give us enough reason for it this way. doing this once is not acceptable but twice.. :mad: :mad:
they can be glad theres an ocean between me and the headoffice of atari.
Well, if you start swimming now maybe you get there before toolset is released..
InhumanOne
01-10-2006, 00:48
If I was that good of a swimmer I am sure I could swim around the world 10 times before they would finally give us what they promised us.
In a perfect world developers would publish their own games, publishers always cause trouble.
swe_wolfis
01-10-2006, 00:59
If I was that good of a swimmer I am sure I could swim around the world 10 times before they would finally give us what they promised us.
In a perfect world developers would publish their own games, publishers always cause trouble.
Well, you have almost a week to swim...atleast if I calculated right
Well, since they promised that we would have the toolset 4 weeks before release, we in europe cant really complan(sp) untill next friday, 6 October.
AS_Dodger
01-10-2006, 01:26
The only correct way they could do it is to make sure that people can download when it becomes midnight for them, which means that there should be people that are able to download it earlier.
By having everyone think it starts when it's midnight for them, more people would likely start downloading at different times and therefor not flood the server(s) with download requests, so downloading could be faster.
I think they'll use the UK time (GMT) or nearby, if they go for American time (EST = GMT-5, but there's different timezones there) it'll likely be 6:00 here on sunday before it starts.
--- edit ---
Was multi-tasking a bit, so took longer to type this, didn't see Lorft's reply.
[b[Also wanted to add that trafic would be horrible if it's going to be american's time. Think of americans starting to download at midnight and at the same time a host of annoying europeans in the morning... the horror![/b]
Unfortunately, this does appear to be the case.
Totally, totally ridiculous for the timer to work this way TWICE.
Imagine the impression for all the people that don't frequent these, or the offical NWN2 boards. All they will see is a web page that doesn't work.
Beyond incompetent. They put that cute little message up about not deliberately annoying people, and then do the exact same thing AGAIN.
I don't know why I expected anything different from this company. Blind optimism I guess.
Lledridd
01-10-2006, 01:46
Hi all :)
Just tried to start the download, but the "countdown" is acting very strange.It starts with the pretty picture and the thick red line down the middle with the word "loading", and then all hell starts up, with the countdown flashing straight from:-
00days, 00hours, 00mins, 00secs.
to
33days, 33hours, 33mins, 33secs.
:hin: :hin:
Then it just repeats all the above...
I suspose its broke, for some reason?
BlackHawk01x
01-10-2006, 01:59
Hi all :)
...
I suspose its broke, for some reason?
Hello too :salut2:
Naw, it's just a missscripting of the timer-function. It took the countdown depending on 'your' computer'time. So GMT had to wait 1 more hour than GMT+1 timezone etc.
I guess the 'real' time is in US, so around 5 or 6 o'clock in european time I would say... best is I guess going sleeping and then looking tomorow if it then still not works... well... going crazy or so :o :laugh: (have a new smiley found I like *nods*)
Lledridd
01-10-2006, 02:05
Thanks BH for replying so quick :)
So basically, I'll have to wait until 9-10am BST to have another go then?
It is also possible that the timer was just pointing to the day of release rather than the actual time. In this case it may not be availible until late evening sunday or even monday morning.
Lorft
BlackHawk01x
01-10-2006, 02:16
Uhm... well... just try every hour or so *grins*
That's what I will do when waking up again *smiles*
So at this point: Nighty to you all *waves sleepily and sneaks to fluffy pillow to cuddle*
hey, no need to start crying, it's not even october 1st all over the world, and even more it's by far not 2nd... so _if_ we can start downloading sometimes today there'd be nothing to blame atari for, as they only stated i'd be today, not today 0:00 ... ok?
Good morning Europe :respect: *hides in a fortress of pillows, wearing a pillow-padded armor, for self-defence*
Less than 30 mins for the EST timer to run out, even checked the german one (and they should get their own version because they translate everything dark: their timer ran out when mine did) not that I want the german version, just for checking (and no, nothing downloadable when you pick the german language, this might mean that there's only one language for this toolset, not that I would mind that).
This does not bode well. :noooo:
While technically they didn't mention that it would be from 00:00, they mentioned to expect it on the 1st. Their timer indicates differently, the timer is a timer that runs to the day, but the meaning of the timer was given nowhere, so people assume it's a timer until the download is available.
I hope I can download it close to now, or I'll have to wait a small week before I can download (unless I want this PC to run all next week, which I don't) and start using it.
WhenDarknessReigns
01-10-2006, 09:25
I been trying this site to download and get this FsCKING error message, anyone getting this message??????
Query failed SELECT * from NWN2DownloadRegCodes where regcode = '**********'select command denied to user: 'nwn2-site@10.77.2.72' for table 'NWN2DownloadRegCodes'
note: the ***** are my key code from the preorder package
Try this site if you could:
http://www.atari.com/nwn2/presell/preorder/US/preorder.php
And post please, if you have success or failure or if you get the same message as I. Thanks and FsCK YOU ATARI!! Ball breaking son of a B!tCHE$ !!!!!! :mad: :cry: :mad:
That last link just takes you to ftpbeta.atari.com
You can also go there directly, establish a FTP connection and log in with username 'seattle' and password '3gbtset', but there is nothing there....just a small, empty file.
I am really starting to wonder if Atari's financial troubles have resulted in all the competent people leaving and therefore we are seeing this mess.
InhumanOne
01-10-2006, 10:17
right now I just feel like grabing a pitchfork and a torch and head to atari's office.
hmm... so you followed a link you somehow got from someone, somewhere - and you are amazed it doesn't work?! i can understand your frustration about not downloading yet - but i can't see atari's fault where unlinked skripts are not working right now. just wait until file distribution to the ftp-servers (there are more, btw.) is completed (if you saw an 0-byte-file it's a dummy, probably just there to make sure the other skripts work).
you don't want to download an incomplete toolset, do you?!
ah, and frisk? don't know where you got that id/pw from (seemingly a breach of the nda), but that's the ftp-server used for distribution of the toolset beta. if the validate.php script actually took you there then you happened to stumble upon a "work-in-progress" version of the script.
ah, and frisk? don't know where you got that id/pw from (seemingly a breach of the nda),
NDA? Never signed any NDA with them. Got a NDA with mmultiple companies for beta-testing and other reasons, including Microsoft, but Atari is not one of them.
As for how to get the pw/id - it appears right there on your screen if you go to the http://www.atari.com/nwn2/presell/preorder/UK/download.php page, and click the "Click here to download" button. Then just move your cursor above the "Up to higher level directory" and it shows the pw/id. Simple.
but that's the ftp-server used for distribution of the toolset beta. if the validate.php script actually took you there then you happened to stumble upon a "work-in-progress" version of the script.
Possibly. Or possibly some leftover stuff that hasn't been cleared away. Anyhow, I am just getting a bit irritated, as I had expected to spend today downloading the toolset and playing with it - and I'm not going to have any time to do so again until next weekend.
ok, that explains it :) but then it's still amazing that you got that far, as both pages are not yet linked to from the official nwn2 site... well, anyway i sympathize with you, i also thought i could start to warm up with the toolset today (and last weekend, and the week before...).
tenebra_uk
01-10-2006, 12:17
In a perfect world developers would publish their own games, publishers always cause trouble.
That is like expecting brain surgeons to be fantastic architects :mefiant:
I can't see how a top developer could be a competent publisher, sorry. This is why even in-house studios operate separately from the publishers that own them, to keep the expertise and responsibilities separate.
It's Sunday, I have nobody to contact unfortunately.
Shade_Shadowbane
01-10-2006, 12:20
4 8 15 16 23 42
Glandino
01-10-2006, 12:42
4 8 15 16 23 42
NOOO Don't use those numbers!!!!!
*runs away in fear*
please, if you like spamming, go to biowares forums ... you're in good company there.
Glandino
01-10-2006, 12:48
please, if you like spamming, go to biowares forums ... you're in good company there.
Sorry I just wanted to make smilining you =)
hmm... making me smile? actually i do, i've been smiling ever since my clock said "it's doubtload-time again". smiling, because i'm already used to the mess i'm seeing here - and i mean not ataris inability to provide the toolset right now, but the reactions of the community. we've had that same experience two times before, so by now everyone should know to keep down their excitement.
don't get me wrong, though. i'll be that nasty cat again when the day's over and there still is neither toolset nor explanation.
Shade_Shadowbane
01-10-2006, 13:09
So Tanita... you are both the spam police and the community's calming voice? But warn us that you will shut those roles down and return to your normal self if you don't get what you want.
oh come on, throwing your anger on me won't help. i'm just as annoyed as you are, but i've learned at the age of four that throwing and smashing everything i could get a grip of didn't make the annoying things change at all.
of course atari knows by now that we are upset, we've been upset a week ago, and the week before as well, and not only because of the poor handling of this download. either they are taking us seriously (then they sure have a good reason to not give us the download right now) or they don't bother at all (then they don't bother reading your postings as well).
so whatever you do here and now, it won't help.
spamming this forum will not get you the toolset any sooner.
swearing at atari will not get you the toolset any sooner.
if you want to enterain someone, then biowares forums provide a much broader audience.
but please don't think i wanted the toolset less urgent than you, i even asked for the (presumed buggy) beta-toolset or whatever toolset they'd ready then when the counter ran out a week ago. of course i didn't expect that to happen. quite a part of the community laughed at me "silly one, can't you just wait until it's finished? it's just some more days...", especially at biowares forums. right now it's the same community, sometimes even the same people crying "oh atari, where is my toolset, what have you done to me?!".
we want them to take us seriously? we only showed them just how childish we are. now _that's_ annoying to me.
slowdive_fan
01-10-2006, 14:54
spamming this forum will not get you the toolset any sooner.
if you want to enterain someone, then biowares forums provide a much broader audience.
I am not "spamming" this forum. I just want Atari to know how disappointed we are with their lack of communication on how the download would proceed. No communication is bad communication in this situation. Also, Tanita, stop telling us to go to Bioware's forums and complain, they have nothing to do with Atari's incompetence. This is the forum to express our thoughts on Atari's performance. :atari: :bravo: :chapeau:
I am not "spamming" this forum. I just want Atari to know how disappointed we are. [...] Also, Tanita, stop telling us to go to Bioware's forums and complain, they have nothing to do with Atari's incompetence.try to read and understand what i said.
i not told anyone to go to biowares forum _in order to reach atari_, of course i know that bioware's not responsible for anything right now, they are just hosting and moderating forums for their friends at obsidian. i _did_ tell that shadowthing to go there in order to get an audience applauding to his silly content-less spamm-posting, and actually there _is_ a thread over there just proofing i'm right.
and concerning your will to tell atari how disappointed we are... just give them until midnight to keep their promise ("... available on october 1st..."), after that we won't make fools of ourselfes when we point our fingers at atari.
slowdive_fan
01-10-2006, 15:19
and concerning your will to tell atari how disappointed we are... just give them until midnight to keep their promise ("... available on october 1st..."), after that we won't make fools of ourselfes when we point our fingers at atari.
Give them until midnight (Oct 1) to post an official communication on how the download is to proceed? That should have been explained on the download page itself days ago. I'm not complaining about the current toolset avaliability, I'm complaining about their lack of concern as displayed by their non-communication on how this would all proceed. People staying up all night assuming it would be available is not communicating. Not knowing if the counter actually means something, is not communicating. Is it EST, PST, or some other time zone? Or just some time Oct 1 anywhere in the world? No communication. If they don't know for sure, then just tell us that, so we don't have to try and guess what they are thinking. :atari:
Amen to that. The Bioware forums are zero productive right now. A few kids found their way here too apparently, displaying they can cuss in capitals, but let's keep this at some level of decency and do what's leading anywhere :)
grezzler
01-10-2006, 15:24
That is like expecting brain surgeons to be fantastic architects :mefiant:
I can't see how a top developer could be a competent publisher, sorry. This is why even in-house studios operate separately from the publishers that own them, to keep the expertise and responsibilities separate.
It's Sunday, I have nobody to contact unfortunately.
In all honesty they couldn't possibly be doing worse than Atari is with this. Pretty ballsy to be making such a statement when this fiasco is going on.
In all honesty they couldn't possibly be doing worse than Atari is with this. Pretty ballsy to be making such a statement when this fiasco is going on.
And plus her sttement is completely false. There are several companies, big and small that develop and publish. They only have to hire people both for the publishing part and the developing part. In the states Oblivion was both developed and published by Bethesda for example, and it cant be said that they are loosing money now. (Atari though is in a real financial crisis) Dont get me wrong though, Oblivion sucked.
there are two things mixed up:
1. we can not download the toolset at the moment.
that's hard for everyone, including me, but let's keep our hopes up until tomorrow. then, when it's just not october 1st anymore, we can start throwing keyboards at atari - but don't throw to hard, as they only stated "can be expected"...
2. we are not beeing informed about what's (not) going on and why
that's even harder, agreed, but it's been discussed for almost two weeks now, there's nothing more to add. you may of course chose other words to express your sadness, anger, disbelief, whattheheck - but it won't further the cause.
anyway... i'll be out in the gardens for now.
BlackHawk01x
01-10-2006, 16:21
Hm... well they all like you more than me, tanita *grins*
I'm not even mentioned to try to calm people down *sniffs* tonguegre
Well enough childishness:
It's a fact that some people always find a reason to spam-flame. For one it's the bad timer'thingy (okay I was a bit confused as well since I not saw it as "then we have 1st of october" in my thinking which the timer wanted to tell I guess) I could make bets already that some of them will start spamming with flames about a single typo in one of the spell'descriptions e.g. ...
Well.. I try to say: it's always the same, that some people simple use every little point to flame things, even most of these points are very simple (tiny bugs like a typo makes some of them already call the company names O_o) or simple cause not reading the things right way. It was told "One month before full'version'release" they expected it to be avaible in the second they buy the preorder pack - okay Amazon.de forgot to mention that but read it before in bioware'forums about that it could be just a code so not was surprised.
Long text simple words: Calm down until the day is 'over' then do whatever you like, but if they release a good toolset today then take some minutes to say here 'thanks' or just that you're okay with having it now. So many people always flameflameflame and never say thanks when it's not like they wanted it to be... *shakes head*
I am like tanita: surely I would like to have it right into this second that I write this sentence, but I do know that calling people names (since behind "Atari" you mean the people who're working there and would you like being called names all the time? I bet half of you would have been pouting now and wrote something "Well you called me names so I won't give you anything!!!") does help nothing at all.
So general: Calm down and read the release-informations they give before going everywhere to make war against a company. (I took myself about 4years and a few month before I started my lil war gainst Atari'Germanys'Support'Situation so it's not impossible tonguegre :laugh: )
hothgorn
01-10-2006, 16:33
Things go wrong, and it's not on purpose. We will get the toolset eventually.
Nightmist
01-10-2006, 16:54
Things go wrong, and it's not on purpose. We will get the toolset eventually.
I think people are complaining about how this is handled rather than that there is a delay. Again.
Well, nobody complained that they did it on purpose. It's the same stupidity we were experiencing the last time.
dannable
01-10-2006, 20:55
*shrug*
I'm able to download the toolset.
Whether thats a legal way to downlaod it has yet to be seen. I wont provide the download link here but anyone on the bioware boards can get it. I simply choose not to download this untill i get some offical responce.
And if the downlaod has been made public...i wont be impressed as i have payed for it and expect them to hold to there part of the bargain and make it available to those that preordered and not jsut stuck ona site anyone can get...
madred:
BlackHawk01x
01-10-2006, 21:19
Well I'm myself one of these stupid people who wait for the official site not looping anymore as well, so you're not alone Dxon rolleyesa
Wrote a nice letter to Atari-Germany now about that... just hope they answer it this time and not ignore it anymore... if they do I spam their mail'server with my mails *nods*
Well... I'm still waiting for the official people reacting to that ftp-link in Bioware'forum but up to now noone seems to have noticed it so more and more people who not paid can download the toolset now...
well, it is bitter that all that speak about beeing exclusively for those who preordered is worthless; the least thing i expect is that atari makes amazon.de refund that 10 on buying the full game!
BlackHawk01x
01-10-2006, 21:55
well, it is bitter that all that speak about beeing exclusively for those who preordered is worthless; the least thing i expect is that atari makes amazon.de refund that 10 on buying the full game!
Wrote them a letter today (also asking why their website is down for two days already) and well... not used any nice mood this time since I'm just annoyed now.
Well not even sure if they get my mail since it was just one adress which their techsupport send me from... (the one and only mail they ever answered) since I'm not reaching their website cannot use the things to send them mail over it *sighs*
Well... I think if they not let it be refunded it's everything but good for them, since they told us about 'exclusiv' .... and I surely won't give in about "Well we just can wait until they answer or do something", will write them a mail every day if necessary <_<
Knight_Sir_Galahad
01-10-2006, 22:07
i bought my preorder package directly from my local game store and pre-ordered the limited edition (Dunno which 1 it is yet).
i spent £5 on the preorder pack mostly for the toolset but i still want the merchants friend so i can get armor and stuff cheaper than other people in NWN2 mdr1
oh yeah, they change the release date again to the 3'rd of November
It seems chris over @ bioware has begun to lock all the relevant threads. Having refrained from posting all day untill now about this i'm not going to spoil it by complaining anymore :) I would like to sign off by saying well done to those moderators that have attempted to support us throughout, well done to all the posters that have attempted to calm the community down at various occasions and i hope that all of this can be sorted out with as little difficultly as possible.
From one hoping to hear more tomorrow. G.Night!
dannable
01-10-2006, 22:50
In my mind, there is no question if the FTP site that is being passed around is "legit" or not. Of course it isn't. If ATARI and Obsidian wanted people to be using it, they would have it available on their site right out where us pre-order folks can find it. Not burried where only someone scrounging through the forums can find it.
Yet, the filenames on the FTP site ("NWN2_PRESALE-TOOLSET_FINAL.partxx") suggest that the toolset is indeed ready to roll out. So what's the problem?
Maybe their Flash programmer is home sick?
In the end, though, I decided to start my FTP session anyway. I preordered the game, so I'm not stealing anything and, what's more, if ATARI doesn't want people downloading from that site - it's a simple enough procedure to disconnect everyone and lock it down.
So if you're waiting to download your copy because you're adhereing to some imagined moral code - fine. I could care less. I'll let you know how it is once my final part is finished in a little while.
tenebra_uk
01-10-2006, 22:55
In all honesty they couldn't possibly be doing worse than Atari is with this. Pretty ballsy to be making such a statement when this fiasco is going on.
Sorry but with all respect you're pushing it to a surreal level. As I said millions of times by now, constructive criticism accepted - and, as you've seen, no censorship - but please think twice or more if required before making silly statements.
For the record, I have no idea of what the problem is since it's Sunday. I'll be on Atari tomorrow and let you know.
InhumanOne
02-10-2006, 11:42
Well if a company like bethesda can publish their own games hopefully obsidian can do it too after nwn2. that way atari wont steal most of the money from the people that created the game and they will be hold responsible for only their own mistake and not of some publisher that only cares about cash and absolutely nothing else. Pretty much all developers are passionate about their games and publishers just toy with it.
tenebra_uk
02-10-2006, 12:09
publishers just toy with it.
I'm under the impression you've never spoken to publishers, I doubt you'd ever make such a statement if you had.
Thanks tenebra, the one thing i'm most interested in finding out (if you can) is what will be done about how people got the toolset for free without having to get a code while the ones who do have a code are waiting to see whats up :) I dont mind the wait for the toolset but anything you can get will help loads.
Cheers and thanks for the support as always.
Thanks tenebra, the one thing i'm most interested in finding out (if you can) is what will be done about how people got the toolset for free without having to get a code while the ones who do have a code are waiting to see whats up :) I dont mind the wait for the toolset but anything you can get will help loads.
Cheers and thanks for the support as always.
Why should anything be done? My guess is that most of the people who downloaded the game had a toolset code already - either because they preordered the game or because they purchased the preorder code box.
Of course, atari screwed the distribution of the preorder codes up so badly that they were not even available in some countries, so, yes, perhaps some people from those countries did download.
So what?
It is not as if Atari lost money on this - they are not making money off the pre-release toolkit - they will be making money from selling the game. In fact, getting the toolset into the hands of non-paying people may possibly *help* Atari, by getting more people interested in the game, resulting in more sales.
Overall, it worked out well enough for most people - sure, it took 4 hours to download that toolset (it goes faster now, though - less load), and Atari kind-of managed to get the toolset out on Oct. 1st (well, depending on your timezone).
Why complain?
Anyhow...I'm too busy playing with the toolset to worry about this ;-)
BlackHawk01x
02-10-2006, 14:19
Uhm.. sorry but you are like many of the people who think everything is allowed over Internet, so let me make a RL-Example for such a situation:
- Person A and Person B goes to buy the same music-CD from the same shop.
- Person A grabs the music-CD and goes to pay it, pays it for 10 (just to name same price as germans e.g. paid for the box)
- Person B now simply walks out of the shop, stopped by police "Hey you're stealing this CD!", Person B simply shakes head, points at Person A and says "No I did not, he paid his CD so I'm allowed to take it for free"
So the question now: Would the police say "Yes you're right just take it then *smiles*" or would they laugh and use their handcuffs?
If you choose the first decision: Please never ever try to become a lawyer tonguegre rolleyesa
Just to make clear: that exactly is what happened at the moment: Many people 'paid' for the exclusivity of downloading the toolset and now some &)§(/$ (sorry but I cannot describe them more nicely so just using signs) posted around the link around it, so you not need your key (which still not works the way it should btw 2:15pm GMT+1).
Just to make clear: that exactly is what happened at the moment: Many people 'paid' for the exclusivity of downloading the toolset and now some &)§(/$ (sorry but I cannot describe them more nicely so just using signs) posted around the link around it, so you not need your key No-one has actually paid for the exclusivity - you've paid to reserve a copy of NWN2, and the deposit will be fully refunded when you pay the rest for your copy. The promised toolset was a nice bonus, but it's not what you are paying for.
(which still not works the way it should btw 2:15pm GMT+1).
We have a fortune teller :p It's only 13:23 GMT+1 right now ;)
tenebra_uk
02-10-2006, 14:48
Just had confirmation that the tool set is a beta version, not the final tool set.
BlackHawk01x
02-10-2006, 15:00
No-one has actually paid for the exclusivity - you've paid to reserve a copy of NWN2, and the deposit will be fully refunded when you pay the rest for your copy. The promised toolset was a nice bonus, but it's not what you are paying for.
We have a fortune teller :p It's only 13:23 GMT+1 right now ;)
Uhm... well *smiles* It was mentioned a few times already:
Many people at the moment pay 'extra' for the toolset ('PreOrder-Pack') especially in germany.
So at the moment it looks like the germans pay 10+game'price (that's why I am after the refunding now, but well no answer yet)
Just to say it clearly again: We pay not for the 'preorder' but we paid for a 'PreOrder-Pack', so an extra box with a code for the toolset etc.
@Tenebra:
Thanks for the infos and the statement-Thread *smiles*
Just had confirmation that the tool set is a beta version, not the final tool set.
mdr1 See, I wrote it... other thread, so many look alike now.
Good to have confirmation. :respect:
Just to say it clearly again: We pay not for the 'preorder' but we paid for a 'PreOrder-Pack', so an extra box with a code for the toolset etc.
Ok I didn't realise it had been advertised as such. Over here it was made clear that you could pre-order through buying the pack, which got you a DVD of goodies (screen shots and the like) and that the price of the pack would be refunded when you bought the full game. It was pretty clear you were putting a deposit down on a game which would get refunded when the game came out - I can't read german especially well so I don't know if the advertising over there was misleading, in which case you definately have a case to be angry. Do the other things on the DVD still work?
Just had confirmation that the tool set is a beta version, not the final tool set.
Hmm.. so I guess the question remains, will the toolset that we get with our pre-order codes ever be the final one? Or do we have to wait for the game release for that?
Regards,
well well, seems as if i got my wish granted, at last... but then, i can also wait another couple of hours to download the final one, assuming that server will be at its limit anyway.
but then again, i think someone said the filename was something including "presale" and "final" ?! why would anyone name it that way if it wasn't?
BlackHawk01x
02-10-2006, 16:43
Ok I didn't realise it had been advertised as such. Over here it was made clear that you could pre-order through buying the pack, which got you a DVD of goodies (screen shots and the like) and that the price of the pack would be refunded when you bought the full game. It was pretty clear you were putting a deposit down on a game which would get refunded when the game came out - I can't read german especially well so I don't know if the advertising over there was misleading, in which case you definately have a case to be angry. Do the other things on the DVD still work?
Well the packages are the same: DVD with "Fankit-Files", Code for Goodies like the Merchant Friend-Item and the presale toolset...
Well it was once stated by the german moderator - someone like Tenebra here - that it shall be refunded, but that statement was weeks and over a month already ago and since then the Atari'Germany company is totally silent to every question - a reason why many germans haunt the UK'Forums now *smiles* - and Amazon.de said (translated by me, hehe) "We heard nothing about the refunding by the Publisher so there are no plans", so in this case Atari-Germany not told them to do that and until they not do so - which I fight for at the moment - we will pay extra for the PreOrder'Pack...
[Edit]
About the Toolset and Beta: I guess they still take out minor bugs I guess until they need to give it into pressing-company so reaching 'gold'-status...
Not sure though nothing said and there I can only say same as tanita: The filenames which were posted in Bioware'Forums sounded like it was 'the' toolset the preorder'people (and everyone else at the moment *grumbles*) gets.
[Edit2]
*looks down at Tenebras posting and blushes* Well then I was wrong in my understandings :) Thanks for that information Tenebra *bows gentlemanlike*
tenebra_uk
02-10-2006, 16:45
Hmm.. so I guess the question remains, will the toolset that we get with our pre-order codes ever be the final one? Or do we have to wait for the game release for that?
Yup, the real downloadable tool set will be the final one :)
Don't know, Tanita lightbulb
will the toolset that we get with our pre-order codes ever be the final one?it can't. the toolset (and the game) are like model railroads, never finished, always getting better. to me the question is: will there be something not anyone can download? will there be something worth my 10? like extensive documentation? plugin-sources? or will i still have to hope that atari can convince amazon.de to refund 10 on the full game...
Yup, the real downloadable tool set will be the final one :)
Don't know, Tanita lightbulb
This sounds strange - really strange. Many files inside the downloadable toolset are recent - modified long after the beta tool set was released - for example, trees.2da in the override directory is dated September 23rd.
What I think they meant is that this is not the "final" toolset, in the sense that this is not the one that will be included with the game. It is clearly not the same toolset as the one that was included in the beta test, although it seems to have the beta documentation, not the final documentation.
Don't know, Tanita lightbulbnever mind, i'm just biting my time waiting for the official download to be announced. don't take my snide comments too serious, as long as don't bother to start a new thread for something it isn't that important to me :-)
thanks again for your continued work, shedding light at the mysteries mortals can not understand :wink2:
tenebra_uk
02-10-2006, 17:57
I'm an undead, and today I'm not even able to disguise it. My eyes look like black holes lightbulb
BlackHawk01x
02-10-2006, 18:06
I'm an undead, and today I'm not even able to disguise it. My eyes look like black holes lightbulb
Naw you cannot be undead, you're far too nice for undead *nods* :salut2:
You're maybe just sleepily, then people often feel like an undead *grins*
hmm... maybe you've infected yourself with the same illness that took atari germany down? their eyes - that is: their forums - are just as dark and silent, and the website (www.de.atari.com) is dead and buried for a couple of days now.
maybe, using your supernatural powers, you could somehow talk to their spirits to find out if there is still life in their rotting bodies? it turns out that there are a lot of people who want to resurrect them just to kill them again, but then, really slow and cruelsome... tonguegre
earnestly: could you get a glimpse of what is going on about atari germany? it's nice to be here and have you providing the support they ought to give us, but there are indeed some things we'd like to discuss with someone from german section.
oh, and blackhawk, i suppose you never met one of those really charming sukkubi? and it's said that vampires can be astounding pretty as well...
oh, and blackhawk, i suppose you never met one of those really charming sukkubi? and it's said that vampires can be astounding pretty as well...
That reminds me of my Gnomy Barby Vampy (translation: Gnome barbarian Vampire), *pokes Viv* remember her?
BlackHawk01x
02-10-2006, 18:16
*takes a lil dog and makes him look puppy'eyed at Tenebra to second the words of tanita* :nuts:
Uhm.. well okay vampires is a thing... you beat me there, not thought about them *smiles* Sukkubi are even cuter, hehe not sure though if they're undead, since not all demons are undead :)
So well... in both way I need to be careful would like to keep my blood in my veins :laugh:
@Dazzy:
Yup yup, even I wasn't around often these times already.
tenebra_uk
02-10-2006, 18:30
Well, one of my most famous screams here is "Blood! Flesh! Bones! Aaaaaah!". You've been warned tonguegre
Tanita, I was introduced to the guys in Germany last week and had a brief exchange of emails. I'll speak to them tomorrow and see what can be done :)
you know what? take over for them... you've done far more for us (and so for ataris reputation, you know that?!) than we could have expected, oh they'll have a hard time to gain the trust i've come to lay in your words.
thanx for your assistance!
http://elfenwald.homelinux.net/gfx/tenebra.gif
Hey, i got bored..yes i'm bored without my beloved toolset. I had a quick look and decided to try and state the case of the people who preordered for the toolset offer by qouting some consumer rights law :rolleyes:
Think this highlights our position?
.................................................. ................................................
"
The law says that goods must be:
Of satisfactory quality - goods must meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price and all other relevant circumstances. The quality of goods includes their appearance and finish, their safety and their durability. Goods must be free from defects, even minor ones, except where these defects have been brought to your attention by the seller (perhaps the goods are being sold as 'shop-soiled').
Fit for their purposes, including any particular purpose mentioned by you to the seller - for example, if you are buying a computer game and you explain you want one that can be played on a particular machine, the seller must not give you a game that cannot be played on that machine.
As described - on the package or a display sign, or by the seller. For example, if you are told that a shirt is 100% cotton, then it should not turn out to be cotton and polyester.
"
"
Misleading advertisements
According to the Advertising Standards Authority's codes, all advertisements must be 'legal, decent, honest and truthful', be prepared with a sense of responsibility to consumers and to society and respect the principles of fair competition generally accepted in business. It is up to advertisers to prove any claims they make. If they cannot do so, the advertisement must be withdrawn or amended
"
"
False Advertising
"Any advertising or promotion that misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities or geographic origin of goods, services or commercial activities" (Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C.A. § 1125(a)).
Proof Requirement
To prove that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things: (1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser's own or another person's goods, services, or commercial activity; (2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience; (4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and (5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement's potential to injure a customer. The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.
"
I also read the what should be done parts but that wasnt very clear and is subjective to different situations. Not that i can even be bothered to do anything or would want to over something such as a game...guess atari wins by default huh :atari:
tenebra_uk
02-10-2006, 23:42
Dxon15, as per the consumer rights Atari haven't gone against any rules. If you feel you didn't get the best service, then nobody - including Atari - will disagree. As you can imagine I've spoken to quite a few Atari people today and they weren't happy bunnies. Not one bit. Lessons have been learnt.
Tanita, I'm flattered by your comments, thank you ever so much. One thing I need to say is that Atari employees are absolutely swamped with work. I try to take over - even if on a voluntary basis - as much as I can and I am struggling myself to give you some sort of decent feedback (I have also a full time job and life). Would I do it if I didn't have a deep respect and appreciation for the company and this place? Certainly not, I'd do some paid freelance work instead, if I really really wanted to. Most probably I'd be playing games instead. When something doesn't happen here (ie the whole Atari forums) is not out of laziness but simple lack of time, whether it's me or the Atari people. You might be getting a better deal out of this particular spot only because I have specific professional experience hence it's easier for me to know what I should be doing, but unfortunately you won't get many volunteers with the same background. Just as simple as that, no conspiracy theories ;)
you know what? take over for them... you've done far more for us (and so for ataris reputation, you know that?!) than we could have expected, oh they'll have a hard time to gain the trust i've come to lay in your words.
No way are you stealing our tenebra!
No way are you stealing our tenebra!can we have a clone then, please? pleeeeaaaaase! :cry:
Sternitzky
03-10-2006, 13:56
Yup, the real downloadable tool set will be the final one :)
I don't want to disappoint the honorable customers who bought the preorder, but:
No, it isn't.
I'm 100% sure. Honest Injun!
1. The toolset is the same version, has the same date.
2. The ftp-server where the preorder-customers are now directed to from the official preorder-download-link is the same like the one where non-customers downloaded from with the login data available at the Bioware-Forum.
3. And not to forget: Still now it is possible for non-customers to download the toolset with the same login data. Atari did not change the login data when the official download-link for the preorder-customers was established. I tested it, I know what I'm speaking off.
@tenebra: It's nothing personal.
In my opinion Atari doesn't turn an honest penny. If they had a little bit honor and feeled remorseful they would do anything to reestablish their reputation and compensate the preorder-customers, the greatest fans, in an honest manner. And, please, no refund-fiasco. If I was asked it would be good for the preorderers if they obtained the first plugin (like the ones that were available for NWN1) for NWN2 for free.
As I have said before...you will probably need your keycode to get the Merchant's Friend, unles Atari screws that up too, so it will probably not be utterlly useless.
Having said that, I expect that the vast majority of people who have bypassed the keycode verification had the keycode anyhow....myself for example.
tenebra_uk
03-10-2006, 14:55
*sigh*
Hold tight, it looks like things are not completely clear. I should have news after 5pm GMT +1
Sternitzky
03-10-2006, 15:02
*sigh*
Hold tight, it looks like things are not completely clear. I should have news after 5pm GMT +1
It would be quite good if that were news we will unable to disprove. Otherwise I would be only disappointed.
hmm, looking into the folders... even the "documentation" still contains references to the betatest, and though beeing quite fine for beginning to use the toolset i'd hoped for a lot more in detail documentation - wasn't that one of the arguments when everyone told me to wait for the "final" presell toolset instead of asking for a beta-version? well, i waited (actually had no choice *g*), so now i expect a "final" version. or at least a statement explaining about _this one_ beeing the beta version i asked for anyway...
This is *not* the beta version. Many files in the toolset have been updated from the original beta. Not, however, the documentation - it seems to be the same.
This is *not* the final version, in the sense that this will (hopefully) not be the one included with the final release - there are far too many small bugs in it for that.
Whether there will be any toolset release between now and the game release is up to Atari and Obsidian, of course, but I really, really doubt it, as the toolset is "good enough", despite the bugs it has.
my question is not aimed at how "final" or "beta" the toolset is, it is working alright for me and that's enough. but i still want to know if (or better: why) the toolset that leaked on sunday is the same as the version we can download now, which we were promised to get exclusive access to and paid for it. it is the same, no doubt, and that will have some consequences, at least if we don't get the money we paid refunded when buying the full game at amazon.de.
but as this is more of a "germany only" problem (atari uk hardly can do much about it) this is not the right forum to adress the issue.
BlackHawk01x
04-10-2006, 13:57
@Tanita:
Just got answer of Amazon.de again (in a mail I begged them to speak directly with Atari about it again... don't think they did that though *sighs*)
Answer was:
"Leider muss ich Ihnen mitteilen, dass der Kaufpreis der Pre-Order-Box
nicht auf den Kaufpreis der Vollversion angerechnet wird
Der Kauf der Pre-Order-Box ist optional und es werden damit
zusδtzliche Features erworben."
Tranlated it says about: No refunding, cause the preorder'pack-buying was optional due of the additional 'features' (which we know are no more worth the money *sighs*)
Only thing I try - and if I succed I will write this down in german forums so everyone should try that too - is to get the 60% price-lowering which people who did buy it 'to' the release not gets at the moment.
(If I understand this way only price'lowering withing 1 week of where you bought it are automatically counted for you, everything aboth that time you're not sure if you can get it... the 60% was made about 2 weeks after release...)
Well if they stand with we have to pay the 10... Well then I feel totally like a fool cause trusting into the words Atari-Germany and Amazon.de-Website were telling us.
Sadly they do not accept the word about "it is to be refunded" which was made form the German-Atari'Forum-Moderator since he is "No official member of Atari" ...
[sarcasm on]
Is there a way to get my 10 by lawyer from the person who illegally posted the link around the code'check?
[sarcasm off]
:cry:
fine.
*sighs*
so just let's face it: we've been smacked right in our faces! we invested 10 (actually 13, including shipping) for the hope of getting something _exclusive_ and _in advance_. at least it is in advance, but far from exclusive.
at least now i know that it was right to cancel my order with amazon.de!
i'd really like to know how much amazon had to pay atari for the boxes, it can't be more than perhaps 2,50 (as medimarkt & co. sold it for 4 and want their margins as well). so that's 7,50 times the number of german preorderers... just great.
Knight_Sir_Galahad
04-10-2006, 15:35
i'm a bit confused now, so the downloadable toolset is the actual presale toolset but isn't the toolset they will release with the official release of the game ?
if it isn't going to be in the official release of the game, will our modules/custom armor etc work in the Final toolset when the game is released?
after installation the toolset tells you that you will have to open and save your modules in the sales-version of the toolset before you can actually playtest them. but i think that's just a warning because they don't know today whether there will be significant bugs to be solved before shipping the game.
anyway it's hard to pay 10 for beeing sort of betatester...
At this point..i would settle for some clarification and a reassurance this code i bought, and spent the time to hunt down is nto worthless. Even if that means that only the merchants friend remains exclusive. (i couldnt really care less about the merchants friend i got that code for the toolset but *sigh*) Its jsut principles and sticking up for what you believe in that companys should deliver what they have promised. I dont really care about a getting a refund, just some words to either reassure me...or not as the case may be.
Apart from this i feel alot more supported by atari at the moment due to thier interaction with the community over the past few days. Well done for that!
:atari: 10sur10
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