Hardcore Mode

[cpiddy7]

Dear all,

here are the final details about the Hardcore Mode:

The Hardcore mode will be available as part of the next update which is expected to be released towards the end of the month. Players will need to reach Champion status (450 points) to be able to buy the Hardcore mode. The hardcore mode will be available for purchase on Live for 160 MS points.

This information is final and overwrites any previous information.

The above info was written by the Mole.
So not only did we not get any update or DLC in January but now we're gonna have to pay for Hardcore mode which we have all been told was suppose to be free. Am i the only one that feels a little cheated here? I don't mind the fact i have to pay for DLC, im not even bothered that they never get it out on time but im pretty Ticked off that im gonna have to pay for hardcore mode when we were all told it would be free because it was in the xmas DLC. :anger:

[F166m]

Dissapointment after Dissapointment.

We where told that Hardcore mode would be included in the X-mas pack. But now they change it :mad:

They just want to suck as much money from us as possible.

10sur10 Atari, in the competition of making customers as mad as possible.




Really low.

[cpiddy7]

Couldn't have said it better myself

[Crazymunky_182]

Dissapointment after Dissapointment.

We where told that Hardcore mode would be included in the X-mas pack. But now they change it :mad:

They just want to suck as much money from us as possible.

10sur10 Atari, in the competition of making customers as mad as possible.




Really low.

Hate to say it but agreed,

http://forums.eu.atari.com/showthread.php?t=46894&highlight=Hardcore

In the above thread it's even said 3 times that it will be included with the xmas DLC - post's number 5, 14 and in 16 tenebra even says...


The January update will activate the hardcore mode for those who have bought the Christmas pack, so in answer to your question, Sphinx, yes, you won't have to pay an extra penny for the new mode

[Hengist]

This is tantamount to Fraud.

They got lots of people to purchase the Xmas pack because they stated that this was the only way to get the Hardcore mode. I personally couldn't give a stuff for the new cars, featured in the Xmas pack, and I only bought the Xmas pack because they said that I would need it, if I wanted the Hardcore mode.

One word describes this, and it's Fraud.

Whether or not this was pre-planned is another question.

[GT-Pherelas]

First of all, this is not fraud, secound of all there a buisness, there aim is to make as much possible and is you going crazy over a couple of quid you really need to get help hosnestly.

It was never offically anounced that it will be part of the Xmas download pack, it didn't say it included that when we downloaded it, Atari have done nothing legally wrong.

[cpiddy7]

Wrong wrong wrong. Tenebra said in the above post that was quoted that we wouldn't have to pay an extra penny for the new mode. It's not that its gonna cost a few pound for it, it's because they've said more than once that we won't have to pay.

[GT-Pherelas]

Wrong wrong wrong. Tenebra said in the above post that was quoted that we wouldn't have to pay an extra penny for the new mode. It's not that its gonna cost a few pound for it, it's because they've said more than once that we won't have to pay.

Tenebra's word isn't offical offical, I know she is a MOD, works for Atrai (I think) and what not, but untill Atari as a company come out and say that it will be free or its with Xmas pack then it's not offical.

[glanzarog]

Tenebra's word isn't offical offical, I know she is a MOD, works for Atrai (I think) and what not, but untill Atari as a company come out and say that it will be free or its with Xmas pack then it's not offical.



I think you're missing the point.

The last DLC was advertised with Hardcore mode included at no extra cost.

[danup]

well then she shouldnt have said anything, im not having ago or anything, its just people will hear the slightest word and make a mountain out of a MOLE hill from it!

[cpiddy7]

If im not wrong im pretty sure that the mole said that it would be free more than once. He also wrote that "This information is final and overwrites any previous information". Just by writing this it implys that it has already been said that it was free and now its not. Correct??? weirdblue

[C0LUMBIA]

First of all, this is not fraud, secound of all there a buisness, there aim is to make as much possible and is you going crazy over a couple of quid you really need to get help hosnestly.

It was never offically anounced that it will be part of the Xmas download pack, it didn't say it included that when we downloaded it, Atari have done nothing legally wrong.
I think your the one that needs help mate

[GT-Pherelas]

I think your the one that needs help mate

Have known that for years. :) . I just can't understand how people have a go at a company for changing there mind. If it was illegal we wouldn't be in a very good situation as all buisness's would be shut. Everyone changes their mind and so much work has gone into this (I would imagine anyway) it would just be stupid to give it away anyway. All i've seen here is a buisness doing what what a buisness is ment to do, make money..

[glanzarog]

Have known that for years. :) . I just can't understand how people have a go at a company for changing there mind. If it was illegal we wouldn't be in a very good situation as all buisness's would be shut. Everyone changes their mind and so much work has gone into this (I would imagine anyway) it would just be stupid to give it away anyway. All i've seen here is a buisness doing what what a buisness is ment to do, make money..



What's not to understand?
I know 160 MS points may not be that much but I'd still prefer to keep them!

[cpiddy7]

The company already made money for hardcore mode cause they said we would get it free with the xmas pack so loads of people went out and bought it just for hardcore mode. Can you not see this??

[Hengist]

All i've seen here is a buisness doing what what a buisness is ment to do, make money..

Ok, if it's not Fraud, then what about False advertisement?

I don't know what kind of businesses you deal with, but businesses that operate respectable business practises, are the ones that I like to deal with. You can have honour and integrity and still make money. Perhaps honour and integrity are not very high factors on your list? If that's the case, then I feel sorry for you.

[PeaceDivision]

Gotta agree this time, the xmas pack was advertised as including the hardcore mode, now we have to pay for it. That is false advertising at the least. Why not just charge for patch #3 while your at it? :mad:

[GT-Pherelas]

Getting some stick here. Yes I can see your point but this is the discription of the prduct everyone bought;

Available for download on Xbox Live® Marketplace for 350 Microsoft Points, the Test Drive Unlimited® Racers Guild Download Set features seven more exotic supercars, including a Dodge Viper SRT-10 Coupe. Grab these new cars from Marketplace today:

1971 Dodge Challenger RT (FREE!)
Racers Guild Download Set (350 Points)
This premium set includes the following cars:

Ferrari 612 Scaglietti
McLaren F1 GT
Dodge Viper SRT-10 Coupe
Ruf Rt 12
Alfa Brera
Edonis
As with all the car downloads for Test Drive Unlimited, you still need to "purchase" the cars in-game to add them to your collection, so head for the respective car dealer to find these new rides.

Nowhere that I can see does it mention hard core mode. Yes Atari changed there mind and while this may be annoying (and not good for customer relations) when someone accuses them of fraud, thats just stupid.

[glanzarog]

Getting some stick here. Yes I can see your point but this is the discription of the prduct everyone bought;

Available for download on Xbox Live® Marketplace for 350 Microsoft Points, the Test Drive Unlimited® Racers Guild Download Set features seven more exotic supercars, including a Dodge Viper SRT-10 Coupe. Grab these new cars from Marketplace today:

1971 Dodge Challenger RT (FREE!)
Racers Guild Download Set (350 Points)
This premium set includes the following cars:

Ferrari 612 Scaglietti
McLaren F1 GT
Dodge Viper SRT-10 Coupe
Ruf Rt 12
Alfa Brera
Edonis
As with all the car downloads for Test Drive Unlimited, you still need to "purchase" the cars in-game to add them to your collection, so head for the respective car dealer to find these new rides.

Nowhere that I can see does it mention hard core mode. Yes Atari changed there mind and while this may be annoying (and not good for customer relations) when someone accuses them of fraud, thats just stupid.



I'm going to admit as well,the fraud statement was pretty thick.

It was understood though that Hardcore mode was included with the DLC.
That's the bottom line here.
Can't argue with it.

[GT-Pherelas]

Ok, if it's not Fraud, then what about False advertisement?

I don't know what kind of businesses you deal with, but businesses that operate respectable business practises, are the ones that I like to deal with. You can have honour and integrity and still make money. Perhaps honour and integrity are not very high factors on your list? If that's the case, then I feel sorry for you.

Really getting it now, oh dear. I don't deal buisness people to put it striaght and yes on a degree it was false advertsing but as i've said again that was not offical. Again the my above post I do not agree with the moral side of what Atari have done but I do see why they have done it and offically its not false advertsing really. You take them to court, you'll be throw out stright away.

And not I can't argue with it but as i've said many time, I don't belive it was bery offical, morally wrong but nothing else.

[Diablo_]

As this is to do with the Xbox 360 version the thread has been moved.

[Marc_CRX]

Does this Mean Even the People Who Downloaded the Xmas pack will have to pay 160MS points?

[glanzarog]

Does this Mean Even the People Who Downloaded the Xmas pack will have to pay 160MS points?



I'd say so.

[SupermAnthony]

Does this Mean Even the People Who Downloaded the Xmas pack will have to pay 160MS points?

You got it. That's why everyone's so annoyed.
Zonda F and all will be forgiven! :wink2:

[cpiddy7]

From what i understand, yes, the ones of us that bought the xmas pack for hardcore mode will still have to pay for it.

[RESome]

i'm pretty sure it means if you havent purchased the last the xmas dlc you can purchase it seperatly. i'd wait for it to come out before making judgement..

[cpiddy7]

I guess all we can do is wait to see what happens when we finally get the DLC.

[Sebringmgb]

Its more annoying that they decided to charge for it, AFTER it was delayed horribly... What is FAR more annoying, is with a 350ms point car pack, and 160ms point Hardcore mode... thats 510ms points... so they engineered it so youre 10 points under the limit for your 500ms point buy... enjoy your 1000 ms points everyone.... your 490 extra wont get you very far either.

[GT-Pherelas]

i'm pretty sure it means if you havent purchased the last the xmas dlc you can purchase it seperatly. i'd wait for it to come out before making judgement..

"This information is final and overwrites any previous information. "

This is the only thing that says otherwise though dosn't rule your thory out. And thats why you get the shop vershion. Much better amount of points.

[Marc_CRX]

A£ari now have some explaining to do

[RESome]

I think I missed the part where Atari themselves (not a post copied to and from several forums) confirmed this...

[Marc_CRX]

I think I missed the part where Atari themselves (not a post copied to and from several forums) confirmed this...

Yup i think you missed it

http://forums.eu.atari.com/showthread.php?t=49414

[PeaceDivision]

A£ari now have some explaining to do


Good luck with that, There is no piece of official material about the "Test Drive Racers Guild Download Set" That says anything about hardcore mode being included. Just 2 months of hot air from the mods of this forum.

So even tho this was a total bait and switch lie, they are not liable for anything.

[moab355]

I for one loved this game. But I promise you(and I have an Xbox, Xbox 360, Ps2, Ps3 and 2 psp's) I have purchased my last Eden/Atari game. Your company makes me sick. Broken promises and now flat out lies and deception. So many people bought December content because of your statements that you got hardcore mode free with it. Now you simply say we have to pay for it. I dont know how you sleep at night. You have lied to an entire community of your biggest fans. Where is all of our promised monthly downloads. I hope that no-one buys anymore content as it is the only way Atari will ever learn anything. I will not be buying anymore content.

We need to start a petition. and send it to Atari. This is not fair. We were told by representitives of this board and Atari that it was included in Dec content. Now that they realize we will pay they are trying to get more money. We need to take a stand somewhere. I can live with delays, I can live with no packs.....I dont think we should allow them to flat out lie.....

[Baxie]

The problem is that some people have been led to believe that they needed the Xmas DLC to get Hardcore, but if they are going the charge seperately for it, the people (like my brother) who bought the Xmas download only to get the hardcore mode has been held in false belief.

And THAT is illegal through marketing laws.

Of course. If they are willing to repay my brother the 350 points he spent on what he was falsely lead to believe was necessary, then he will gladly pay the 160 points.

To make things easier: Just refund him 190 points and all's good in the hood.

As for me. I am dumping these forums.

I am sorry for Tenebra and the other mods, that they have to deliver false information to people repeatedly.

By not stopping by here anymore. I wont be caught up in the stream of false advertising and what else is coming out.

I'll see it on the marketplace, and I'll remember this whole hardcore-debate when I decide whether or not I want to pay for new content.

[F166m]

How can people defend Atari, they just screw their customers over and over again.

They say that we will have monthly carpacks.

There must be some missing months in their calendar.

And this with the Hardcore mode.

Dont say that it's free if it's not.


And honestly, does anyone here want another Crossfire instead of a Diablo?

I dont think anyone would have chosen the Crossfire.

Atari 0.03/10
TDU 10/10

[SupermAnthony]

The problem is that some people have been led to believe that they needed the Xmas DLC to get Hardcore, but if they are going the charge seperately for it, the people (like my brother) who bought the Xmas download only to get the hardcore mode has been held in false belief.

And THAT is illegal through marketing laws.

Of course. If they are willing to repay my brother the 350 points he spent on what he was falsely lead to believe was necessary, then he will gladly pay the 160 points.

To make things easier: Just refund him 190 points and all's good in the hood.

As for me. I am dumping these forums.

I am sorry for Tenebra and the other mods, that they have to deliver false information to people repeatedly.

By not stopping by here anymore. I wont be caught up in the stream of false advertising and what else is coming out.

I'll see it on the marketplace, and I'll remember this whole hardcore-debate when I decide whether or not I want to pay for new content.

Bye, Baxie! Hope you change your mind and drop by again some time.

[BIGROB007]

I typed for a few minutes and said alot of nasty things that probably would of had me booted from the forums all together. till I stopped and thought about it. and you know what? I dont care, yeah we can all :cry: about it till the cows come home. think of the business like a car repair shop you go in they figure out whats wrong with your car, they tell you itll cost xxxx in cash and you come back and it ended up costing more. everything said before was an estimate. only stuff said with the word official or final in the sentence is binding. as an employee of the company and a spokesperson on this website forum they know what they can and cant say. because **** changes, they cant say anything that is not set in stone and post it as final. that is why info was always posted as more details to come or something of the sort. a while back they told us that the mode would be free, yes but what happened in between then and now? set backs/delays problems. I worked for Invacare as a draftsmen for a while and I can say that we have had to eat our own words before because of problems when something doesn't align properly, Ive had to push back release dates and am partially responsible for some inflated price along the way somewhere. but its the same thing here, if they were told to do it in xx amount of man hours so it could be done at a certain date and under a certain cost but issues arise and they bust their hour budget and blow by the date, they dont just stop and put it out, they finish it problem free (hopefully(in a perfect world)) and release it. but as a company they cant eat the cost of produceing it, theyle lose money. when they lose money their budget is dropped and when that happens the games suffer. so I for one will still be buying the update and the hardcore mode. so that they are free to finish TDU2 the most revolutionary racing and driving sim in the history of video games :atari:

[F166m]

I just read Baxies post.

If Hardcore mode will be available to everyone, not just the one who bought the carpack, that's some serious bull.

I bought the X-mas pack mainly for Hardcore mode. I could have been woithout the cars.

If this will be the case, Atari has tricked a lot of customers.

I might sound like my life is hanging on this, of course it's not. It's just that Atari has screwed us customers too many times now.


TDU is such a great game, one of the best i've played in my life. So Atari, why cant you be as great?

[Oddball_E8]

heh... i think i know why they decided to put a price on hardcore mode...

its because theyve lost money on all those DLC delays... they have to make it up somehow so now theyre gonna milk hardcoremode even tho they said it was going to be free...

[adj92]

now we have to pay for hardcore mode now and its also been delayed, well done atari lolblue:

[BIGROB007]

if you really feel that you have been duped into buying the car pack just for HC mode and you get absolutely no enjoyment out of seven cars that were in it (for a driving game) then you have an issue that needs to be handled by Atari's customer relations dept. not eveyone in this forum. and dont phone them up asking how they sleep at night as im sure some police will be showing up at your dore if you do. say "hi my name is _______ ________ im calling with a concern I have with an item that I purchased from your company. Through advertisements and statements made by Atari/Eden staff, I feel that I was unwillingly tricked into purchaseing something I have no use for" and on and on with details, then if they give you a line that sounds too prefab, ask to speak with their supervisor, and if they are the supervisor, ask them why the President/CEO of Atari is answering the phones.

[moab355]

Of coarse Atari has a right to make money. Our problem is simply this. We were told by a representitive from Atari that the December download included Hardcore mode for free. So therefore many people downloaded the December carpack. Now we are told we have to pay for hardcore mode when many of thought we already have. That is a blatent lie to increase sales for the december car pack. I do not see how Atari can pull this.....

[Jimster71]

As long as we don't end up paying for force feedback support. That is still free in the update, isn't it?

[BIGROB007]

I suggest every one stand up take a step or two away from the keyboard grab a glass of water and think. If atari would have been planning to do this for so long then it wouldnt have been delayed it would have been out when they said it would be. not a month later. that is a month of wages that they have to pay without in come from the department. its called cutting loss. and its ugly and nobody likes it especially Atari. honestly do you think Atari enjoys telling their biggest fans something and end up not being able to deliver. thats like tellin your best mate that yuor gonna pay for his bachelor party then show up and forget to bring your wallet. the stripper done showed up already and she needs to be paid regardless.

*edit* I love analogies :laugh:

[F166m]

Yes it is.

BIGROB007= I'm going to call Atari tomorrow :)


350 points isn't something i see as "nothing".

[GT-Pherelas]

I typed for a few minutes and said alot of nasty things that probably would of had me booted from the forums all together. till I stopped and thought about it. and you know what? I dont care, yeah we can all :cry: about it till the cows come home. think of the business like a car repair shop you go in they figure out whats wrong with your car, they tell you itll cost xxxx in cash and you come back and it ended up costing more. everything said before was an estimate. only stuff said with the word official or final in the sentence is binding. as an employee of the company and a spokesperson on this website forum they know what they can and cant say. because **** changes, they cant say anything that is not set in stone and post it as final. that is why info was always posted as more details to come or something of the sort. a while back they told us that the mode would be free, yes but what happened in between then and now? set backs/delays problems. I worked for Invacare as a draftsmen for a while and I can say that we have had to eat our own words before because of problems when something doesn't align properly, Ive had to push back release dates and am partially responsible for some inflated price along the way somewhere. but its the same thing here, if they were told to do it in xx amount of man hours so it could be done at a certain date and under a certain cost but issues arise and they bust their hour budget and blow by the date, they dont just stop and put it out, they finish it problem free (hopefully(in a perfect world)) and release it. but as a company they cant eat the cost of produceing it, theyle lose money. when they lose money their budget is dropped and when that happens the games suffer. so I for one will still be buying the update and the hardcore mode. so that they are free to finish TDU2 the most revolutionary racing and driving sim in the history of video games :atari:

Well said. People are bound to be annoyed but hopefully everyone will calm down. I don't think people realise how much this kind of thing cost to put forward and how deverstating delays can be to a company like Atari.

[GT-Pherelas]

As long as we don't end up paying for force feedback support. That is still free in the update, isn't it?

That has to be free as it was truely advertised and was offical.

[HappySpaceInvdr]

That has to be free as it was truely advertised and was offical.

And your point is....?

:hin:

[GT-Pherelas]

And your point is....?

:hin:

It will part of the patch and they are always free in any game.

[HappySpaceInvdr]

What boils my piss is that I just bought the Christmas pack a couple of days ago so I would be elligible for this Hardcore mode.

Fortunately, I was acting on information published on this message board by employees of Atari so, when I demand a refund from Microsoft, I will be able to prove to them that I was mislead by one of their 3rd party associates, and that the counterstatement above was only issued after I had made my purchase.

[HappySpaceInvdr]

It will part of the patch and they are always free in any game.

Will it? You're sure that force feedback isn't part of the hardcore mode?

I read somewhere else on this forum that hardcore mode simply consists of tweaks to make using the MS force feedback wheel more realistic. So, if you have a force feedback wheel, then you're going to want this add-on unless you're happy with unrealistic handling for your £80 peripheral.

[Maxi_Live]

Of coarse Atari has a right to make money. Our problem is simply this. We were told by a representitive from Atari that the December download included Hardcore mode for free. So therefore many people downloaded the December carpack. Now we are told we have to pay for hardcore mode when many of thought we already have. That is a blatent lie to increase sales for the december car pack. I do not see how Atari can pull this.....

too right. It would be okay if this was a rumor etc. But from a representative to say that is just insulting us. I bought the December pack mainly for hardcore mode as the cars didn't really appeal to me. Now to be told i need to make an extra payment is just a scam. I know 160 points inst much but it means a lot to customers who have already payed 350 points onto for something they have been falsely advertised :/

[HappySpaceInvdr]

too right. It would be okay if this was a rumor etc. But from a representative to say that is just insulting us. I bought the December pack mainly for hardcore mode as the cars didn't really appeal to me. Now to be told i need to make an extra payment is just a scam. I know 160 points inst much but it means a lot to customers who have already payed 350 points onto for something they have been falsely advertised :/

It's also a cheek to tell us how the hardcore mode will enhance driving with the MS Racing Wheel (http://forums.eu.atari.com/showthread.php?t=49165#post1041136) and promise to bundle it with the free update that includes force feedback support, only to take it out and offer it as a separate, chargable DLC.

What's the point of force feedback without hardcore mode going to be? Unless, force feedback is only going to be included in that extra DLC.. is that the case?

Of course, my questions are purely rhetorical, as I will no longer believe anything a forum moderator tells us...

[GT-Pherelas]

Will it? You're sure that force feedback isn't part of the hardcore mode?

I read somewhere else on this forum that hardcore mode simply consists of tweaks to make using the MS force feedback wheel more realistic. So, if you have a force feedback wheel, then you're going to want this add-on unless you're happy with unrealistic handling for your £80 peripheral.

Force feedback im sure was part of the patch. I don't have a wheel so if it only affects the wheel we really need to know. Im sure its just some new phsics, nothing to do with force feedback.

[Mojo1965]

Maybe Atari could have been more clear. But I expect Atari to charge us for enhancements. Add up their sales for TDU. Say its 100000 copies. That's $3 million in sales. Subtract the overhead... progammer salaries for development, server investment, programmer salaries for enhancements/maintenance, etc. To often we see good multiplayer games dwindle because the developer (in this case Atari) have to eventually make a business decision to move on. I have no problem paying Atari 1000 MS points every 3 months or so to keep TDU alive and interesting. This way they have the business case to keep programmers on board and servers running. Motor City Online died because: 1) it was launched before it's time; 2) because they were failing to profit in the long run. TDU needs revenue maintain a profit. If this can be accomplished with a $5 car pack every two months and a $2 enhancement (hardcore mode), I am going to be the first to download and keep this game alive. Also keep in mind that TDU was one of the first Xbox360 games not to rape us with a $60 inititial purchase. Atari launched this game at a modest $40. Let's end this thread and get on with life. And Atari can help end this thread by simply releasing the darned Car Pack and Hardcore module. But then again, the Hardcore module will probably result in another bombardment of threads complaining about this and that. I dig this game! mdr1

[Maxi_Live]

It's also a cheek to tell us how the hardcore mode will enhance driving with the MS Racing Wheel (http://forums.eu.atari.com/showthread.php?t=49165#post1041136) and promise to bundle it with the free update that includes force feedback support, only to take it out and offer it as a separate, chargable DLC.

What's the point of force feedback without hardcore mode going to be? Unless, force feedback is only going to be included in that extra DLC.. is that the case?

Of course, my questions are purely rhetorical, as I will no longer believe anything a forum moderator tells us...

Force feedback is free but with the car physics of non hardcore mode probably just doesn't work with force feedback. Got my wheel ready love it on TDU already have to wait and see how it plays. Looks like I'm losing another 160 points too to compare it :/

Also You're a......................... Legend :D

[HappySpaceInvdr]

Also keep in mind that TDU was one of the first Xbox360 games not to rape us with a $60 inititial purchase. Atari launched this game at a modest $40.

Please bear in mind that this is a European forum.

TDU was not discounted here in the United Kingdom. We had to pay exactly the same price as we did for any other brand new Xbox 360 games (£49.99 or $97.35 in your currency).

[ZetecAndy]

Atari = rip off letdowns.

Exactly what annoys me about atari, the right hand doesnt know what the left is doing :nono:

Why not honour what you said in the first place? Hardcore mode would be included with Januarys DLC, now its a seperate DLC and 160 ms points :mefiant:


EDEN/ATARI, YOUR CUSTOMER RELATIONS SUCK

[GT-Pherelas]

If I was Atari, and don't do this now or your repuationw will be gone, I would have put a small mothly charge on the PC muliplayer. Easy money there and it works with other games.

[reece_sis]

ITS OFFICIAL, ATARI SUCKS! grrr tdown: tdown:

[Mojo1965]

Please bear in mind that this is a European forum.

TDU was not discounted here in the United Kingdom. We had to pay exactly the same price as we did for any other brand new Xbox 360 games (£49.99 or $97.35 in your currency).

Oooph! Point taken! I guess they figure since Europeans pay double than we do for gasoline, why not charge double for a driving game! LOL! rolleyesa

[neo7919]

If it was illegal we wouldn't be in a very good situation as all buisness's would be shut. Everyone changes their mind and so much work has gone into this (I would imagine anyway) it would just be stupid to give it away anyway. All i've seen here is a buisness doing what what a buisness is ment to do, make money..

I can understand why a lot of people would feel cheated but i dont think people on here are trying to say its ilegal, its just un-fair and we can all understand thery are trying to make money. but when the gaming industry is worth billions, big companys shouldnt be offering us things free then trying to make a few quid more because they saw the success of the last downloads, and i know you say its not official because its not been released by atari but surely the people who work for atari who are posting these things on here should not be posting these things without authorisation from the company.

On a lighter note!!!! is it just me that would REALY like to see the BUGATTI VEYRON, BUGATTI EB10, some B.M.W M3's 5's + 6's and poss some subaru and evo's????? lets get some requests going in to atari for the VEYRON at least, stage 3 tuned nothing on the game would touch it.

[the_gaming_guy]

160 points....that equals about.....£2?

Not that much though, is it? :mefiant:

[GT-Pherelas]

I can understand why a lot of people would feel cheated but i dont think people on here are trying to say its ilegal, its just un-fair and we can all understand thery are trying to make money. but when the gaming industry is worth billions, big companys shouldnt be offering us things free then trying to make a few quid more because they saw the success of the last downloads, and i know you say its not official because its not been released by atari but surely the people who work for atari who are posting these things on here should not be posting these things without authorisation from the company.

On a lighter note!!!! is it just me that would REALY like to see the BUGATTI VEYRON, BUGATTI EB10, some B.M.W M3's 5's + 6's and poss some subaru and evo's????? lets get some requests going in to atari for the VEYRON at least, stage 3 tuned nothing on the game would touch it.

If you read eairler posts people were saying it was fraud and false advertising. Anyway its good to get back to a lighter note. A vayron would be good but won't happen, BMW can't get lisesnces, no one car (expedite EA and Forza somehow) Evo and inpeza's would be cool as longs as they are good off road.

[neo7919]

If you read eairler posts people were saying it was fraud and false advertising. Anyway its good to get back to a lighter note. A vayron would be good but won't happen, BMW can't get lisesnces, no one car (expedite EA and Forza somehow) Evo and inpeza's would be cool as longs as they are good off road.

Cant we have the Veyron? how do you know these things, are you an insider?? eekblue:

[reece_sis]

160 points....that equals about.....£2?

Not that much though, is it? :mefiant:
you can talk lol! lolblue: cmon oo we want £2 coz we lie to you!

[the_gaming_guy]

Could someone from Atari PLEASE COME AND CLARIFY/SORT/APOLOGISE for this turn of events.

sour:

[neo7919]

you can talk lol! lolblue: cmon oo we want £2 coz we lie to you!

its not just a case of it being just £2 its that people on here that are supposed to work for atari heve saidit will be free and the only way to get the new hardcore download was to get the chrimbo pack. its a bit like someone saying they are going to turn up to your birthday party then not, its not a big deal but you still feel let down and then dont trust what thet person says

[Grocs]

It seems disappointing that they charge extra for this - but like someone said earlier it is a business and there is money to be made. Atari's financial position is still in the red by about $700,000 (based on the last 3 months of last year) - maybe that's the justification for charging 160ms points. Then again, how much of that do they get - I wonder what share microsoft get from that?

I was disappointed to read that you have to spend a further 160ms points - I'll be waiting to see if it is worth it (by reading reviews) before committing.

[jbcarey]

I have learnt from many occasions in the past, not to say anything when I am this angry.

There. That is all. dark: madred: :mad: :nuts: :mad: madred: dark:

[micndiesel]

its not about the money to much its being lied to im sure ill never buy anything thats got any links to atari in the future hopefully they will go bust and someone who cares about its customers will buy them out

[TestDriveUltimacy]

This is bull. Way to messup a great game ATARI. :atari: = 110% bull and beyond!!

[OneGoodKnock]

I think this is a great move by Atari - I'm really quite glad when all said and done that I can get rid of some more MS points.
I was really dissapointed when it was announced that Hc Mode would be free with the Xmas DLC - I thought oh no I've got money to burn, how can I possibly spend it now. Now things are all cool. Thanks Atari I can now go to bed a very happy man.

[Bartarama]

I bought the xmas pack because it had an F1 GT and also include the hardcore mode, the other cars I didnt care about, also if it didnt have hardcore mode i probably wouldnt of bought it, I also bought the MS wheel in preparation to be the first to enjoy as it should be along with Force Feedback update.

People were lead to believe that if you dont buy the xmas pack you will not have hardcore mode it is clear as day on this forum in many places and this is from official mods. Even after announcing that hardcore mode will be included in the xmas pack for free and then changing this information before it is released and saying you will have to pay for it ontop of the car pack it is perfectly acceptable in every way I agree.

If people want just the hardcore mode for 160 ms points without the car pack thats fine too.

But the people that bought the xmas pack where lead to believe by the official forum of atari that hardcore mode was included for free, without any notification or highlighted sticky topics in clear view that this may change before its release is clearly false advertising no mod outlined that this may change.

In this case I want a full refund because I did not get what i thought i was buying but will i get one, no because it clearly states there are no refunds for this item, why doesnt it clearly state in the forum that hardcore mode may not be include for free at time of going on sale. FALSE ADVERTISING, FALSE ADVERTISING, FALSE ADVERTISING and FALSE ADVERTISING.

What has happened here is the bug that was found in hardcore mode turned out to be bigger than atari first thought and is costing them more to put right and they need to recouperate there losses, so they sting there loyal customers.

The people at Atari made Tenebra look stupid for this, it is her that is taking the stick for this and she is to answer for Ataris blundle while the boss of Atari is hidding away in his office, tenebra is doing Atari a favour and the public a favour all this work she does is for free so i believe and this is the way everyone repays her, I wouldnt be surprised if Tenebra leaves after this she must have made Atari a fortune and what thanks does she get but to be made to look stupid.

GT-Pherelas are you on Ataris payroll to take the heat of them, it may be just a game it may be just a few pounds or dolars but that is not the point.

As a web designer with extraordinary skills in web marketing in google I am sure I could build a website to damage their reputation after building a great game unless they return this hardcore mode to being free again for the people that bought the xmas pack. Forum Members PM me about this and I am sure we will get the missing months of cars that where promised too.

As someone state in another post they may as well sting us for the 3rd update and not bother bringing any cars out every month as promised.

Sort your Act Out Atari, the con company lol

[OneGoodKnock]

Bartman - Totally agree with all you have said, well done mate!!

[ViperGTSRconcept]

$2 isnt much but thats on top of $5 u paid for the dlc pack since we were misinformed(i bought the pack for the cars tho), and $7 is alot to be spending on a mode addition. im not buying it untill i hear good reviews about it, and fully understand how it works and if it works good :atari:

[TestDriveUltimacy]

It's bull...they didn't have enough sales for the december dlc, so they false advertised to screw everyone. *burning it*

[mod edit:] watch your language, you've been edited before, no more warnings.

[Mojo1965]

I don't believe they false advertised. The low December DLC Sales (if this is true) are a sign of how many active players are out there. Most active players are interested in the DLC's. If you do not purchase the DLC's, Atari will be forced to cut there support. They recently expanded the servers and have fixed the server accessibility problem. This kind of service cost $$$. I think where Atari went wrong is to charge 60 pounds for the game in Europe. From that standpoint I understand you feeling a little "taken advantage of". So maybe if would be fair to charge us guys in the US double for the DLC's since we got the game for $40 (US). It'll be comparible to prescription drugs, which people in the US get the shaft. LOL

[moab355]

Just do what I am doing. I am sending E-mail to every gamer magazine. And posting where I can so people know what Atari did. They flat out lied and decieved us. And yes it is a big deal. It is not OK to say download Dec content and get Hard Core mode free. And then turn around and charge you for it. Send an E-mail to Game informer. lets make it a big deal. If 50 people E-mail Every Magazine out there the magazines will be calling Atari for us. Then we will see what happens.

[HappySpaceInvdr]

Oooph! Point taken! I guess they figure since Europeans pay double than we do for gasoline, why not charge double for a driving game! LOL! rolleyesa

Don't feel too sorry for us... we also get paid double what you get in the States so it all balances out. And then, when we do visit your country, eveything is half price! I'm looking forward to my three week holiday on your East Coast so I can pick up some cheap electronics. I might even get a PS3 to rest my feet on for the flight home. :bravo:

[HappySpaceInvdr]

I don't believe they false advertised. The low December DLC Sales (if this is true) are a sign of how many active players are out there. Most active players are interested in the DLC's. If you do not purchase the DLC's, Atari will be forced to cut there support.

Or start charging for things that were originally going to be free... which is what they've done.

[ZetecAndy]

I don't believe they false advertised. The low December DLC Sales (if this is true) are a sign of how many active players are out there. Most active players are interested in the DLC's. If you do not purchase the DLC's, Atari will be forced to cut there support.


And thats our fault why? :nono:

At the time that DLC was out i never knew about this site nor did i see any advertising for the DLC on xbox live, i accidentally stumbled across the download while browsing for game demo's.

Yet again Atari have made a boo boo, this time a big one.

[HappySpaceInvdr]

Could someone from Atari PLEASE COME AND CLARIFY/SORT/APOLOGISE for this turn of events.

sour:

I'm the CEO of Microsoft and I fully apologise for all the ****-ups Atari have made since the 1990's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari#The_1990s:_Decline).

Will that do?

[ZetecAndy]

I'm the CEO of Microsoft and I fully apologise for all the ****-ups Atari have made since the 1990's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari#The_1990s:_Decline).

Will that do?

Nope, fine atari for being idiots then give out the next DLC for free as compensation, will that do? mdr1

[ViperGTSRconcept]

I'm the CEO of Microsoft and I fully apologise for all the ****-ups Atari have made since the 1990's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari#The_1990s:_Decline).

Will that do?
why would microsoft apologise for atari before microsoft even had a console system :hin:

[N1PPER]

why would microsoft apologise for atari before microsoft even had a console system :hin:

good point, and why would M$ apoligize for atari, i wouldnt rolleyesa

[GT-Pherelas]

Cant we have the Veyron? how do you know these things, are you an insider?? eekblue:

No im not an insider, no im not on the payroll (though if you want to send some money :) :) Joking) for arguing Atrai's side. I just looked at the situation from Atrai's point of view, and had quite a lot of flames becouse if it. For some strange reason I found it quite fun (don't ask).

As for the Vayron. It's been said that they want to keep the car exclusive and have only given licence's to only one die-cast model company.

[latt81]

After reading through all the pages of really pi***d of comments about loyal TDU fans I feel the need to get on my soap box, I know it won't change a thing as anyone with any real impact on the game couldn't give a rats smelly botty about what’s said on here but it may help calm me down.

Before this game was released I read loads of hype about all the things that would be in the game, I downloaded both the demos of the game and completely fell in love with it, I remember the first demo where you could drive to a lambo garage and look at some of the other models, and what could you see on a platform but the murcielago roadster, I started salivating straight away, and instantly jumped onto the Game website to pre order my copy.

I patiently waited for the game, I got a few updates from Game telling me my order would be delayed as the release date had been put back, but I kept convincing myself it would be worth it. Eventually Atari/Eden stuck to a release date (a minor miracle) and my copy arrived. I almost ran to my 360 with excitement and put the disk in, I had a few good days of playing the game, but as I got further into the game I found the more things that hadn't made it in, ie the online trade system didn't work, I couldn't get any of the screen shots I was taking in photo mode, and worst of all most of the cars that I was really looking forward to had been held back for DLC. How pi***d was I...

I had pretty much decided that I had been sold a product that wasn't complete, had a lot of bugs, and I had been mislead about the actual contents of the game.(the back cover shows the murcielago and 250 GTO, but aren't available unless you pay extra, if that’s not false advertising then I don't know what is.) After a day or two I calmed down and decided not to return my game, and decided that the cost of the DLC wasn't that great and that it wasn't really a bad game.

So far I've bought every DLC pack released and have almost got 100% complete for the second time, I've regularly read the posts of this forum about DLC's and patches, I've read all the posts of the annoyed customers, fed up that they are still having to wait for content that should have been in the initial release of the game (FFB wheel compatibility), and everytime I've thought you are damn right. I'm annoyed at Atari, as they've made me angry over a game franchise I've loved since I had the first Test drive on my Atari ST.

At the end of the day TDU is a great game, but Atari's attitude towards loyal customers is quite frankly shocking, the amount of money it takes to develop games for next gen consoles should mean that Atari are doing there best to keep people happy while trying to entice new customers, but they seem to be doing the exact opposite. I think we could all cope with one or two of the missed deadlines, or things’ not being in the game, but all of them put together is inexcusable. I feel at the very least Atari should be trying to reward us in some way for sticking with it and paying even more money for things we should have had 5 months ago.

If Atari carry on with like this, I can see very very dark times ahead for them. While a once loyal fan base becomes their biggest critics.

Sort it out please...!

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

I'm taking Atari to claims direct!

[GT-Pherelas]

I'm taking Atari to claims direct!

What did you do, trip over your wireless controller wire and are blaming Atari, there a personal injury solicitor. Stop being an idiot and good luck if you take them to court, you'll be laughed out straight away.

Oh and your 15 so you could do that just about as effectivly as I could, and im not doing anything.

And before you say so, im not going at your age, im the same age as you.

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

What did you do, trip over your wireless controller wire and are blaming Atari, there a personal injury solicitor. Stop being an idiot and good luck if you take them to court, you'll be laughed out straight away.

Oh and your 15 so you could do that just about as effectivly as I could, and im not doing anything.

And before you say so, im not going at your age, im the same age as you.


It's a joke im just angry that i was conned

[GT-Pherelas]

You can't tell tone of vioce on a forum so you should use the sarcastic emotion or somthing. Plus loads of people have been saying they will take Atari to court and your stood out becouse its a personal injery one. rolleyesa

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

You can't tell tone of vioce on a forum so you should use the sarcastic emotion or somthing. Plus loads of people have been saying they will take Atari to court and your stood out becouse its a personal injery one. rolleyesa

i used a ! mark.

Atari deserve to go bankrupt

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!

[GT-Pherelas]

i used a ! mark.

Atari deserve to go bankrupt

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!

That just give the phrase more power, no sign of a joke. And if you don't like anything why your here. You may argue that Atari need to know but I think they got the message with about 300 million threads about it.

If the customer is always right, im a customer, I want all games free, all updates free and you to do everthiong thing I say, don't be riddiclus. They have get a product that customers want and good customer serivce for a reutaion but after all of it, its their game.

[themental1666]

i used a ! mark.

Atari deserve to go bankrupt

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!


lol your all acting like fools i bought the dlc at xmass for the cars i diddnt know any thing about the hardcore mode till a few weeks ago and to be honest i dont care if i have to pay 160ms points i meen this is worse than the arguement about the ps3 being free to play online (the 360 only costs £3.33 a month "£40 one off voucher per year") how many points can you buy online well for 500 it is £4.50 so for 160 = next to naff all and you hope atari goes bust lol.
how do you know it wasnt MS that stopped atari from putting hardcore mode on the dlc hell MS could have thought it was some thing else more adult orientated "hardcore" lol, but most of you will ignore this.

anyway to cut this message off here im fedup with waiting for the car packs as i origonally saw it advertised in EDGE magazine (renound for there expert reviews) that the game would be released around the £30 mark cause of the dlc pack every month for the next 6 months after the games release (it never happened like that, in fact there has only been 3 packs since september 9th " the games release date") basicly i beleave atari had been busy concentrating on the psp pc and ps2 versions so much they completly forgot the format the game firt came out on, or they just couldnt be bothered with it and were looking for more ways to make money (p.s the pc versions car packs will be free as they dont have to go through MS (xbox live). :nono: :mad: madred:

[HappySpaceInvdr]

That just give the phrase more power, no sign of a joke.


No, I just think you've had a sense-of-humour bypass.

It was quite obviously a joke.

[Bezzers1986]

Hi

I wonder if there is some confusion about this. I haven't bought the Xmas D/l pack so not sure about it, can someone please let me know what size the d/l is for it? I know the free car (which comes with the other cars) was around 28MB.

I'm wondering if Atari somewhere have got wires crossed, It would make sense to allow people to purchase the HCmode for 160 if (like me) they haven't bought the xmas pack. I would be happy, cos I'm not fussed about the cars.

It maybe that if you have the xmas pack the update will unlock HCmode for you, it would make sense. But they are still allowing everyone else to get it.

If I am wrong and Atari are expecting you to buy the HCmode after getting the xmas pack, then they have done something wrong and I think your allowed to be a little annoyed.

Bez

p.s Don't forget to let me know the d/l size for xmas pack. Its so you can work out if HCmode was included in the d/l

[HappySpaceInvdr]

p.s Don't forget to let me know the d/l size for xmas pack.

Why don't you just look on Marketplace? It tells you there.

[Bezzers1986]

Why don't you just look on Marketplace? It tells you there.

I'm at work tonguegre

[HappySpaceInvdr]

I'm at work tonguegre

Ha ha! Me too. You could just wait until you get home. :hin:

[Bezzers1986]

Ha ha! Me too. You could just wait until you get home. :hin:

Yeah, guess I will. That is a long time away though. lol

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

Atari are just trying to claw back all their losses from games like DRIV3R and parrallel lines.

[The_Bandit]

Its a bit more serious than that, have you not seen how much money they owe? Only a few months ago they were looking at going bankrupt, I pity the fool who gave them that loan!!!

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

They are making it worse for themselves by ripping off loyal customers

[The_Bandit]

Yes they are. I have been a loyal Atari fan for a while. But when they try and pull this **** I am going to lose faith in them. How can they think this is right?

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

So far i have spent-

£40 (game)
£40 (2nd copy ' cos my xbox fell over, my fault i know)
£whatever all the car packs cost

They also let the americans have it for £30

[The_Bandit]

They let Americans have it for half price which is $30, some places are cheaper. That is £15ish, so we paid the extra £35 (I paid £50 in the shop because I wasnt sure if I should get it) for a map. Sucks to be us hey.

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

its like Sony make us wait longer and pay more for the PS3.

Its discrimination to europeans!

[HappySpaceInvdr]

its like Sony make us wait longer and pay more for the PS3.

Its discrimination to europeans!

It's not really. Things are cheaper in America because they earn less than we do. $600 to an American feels like £600 does to us here in the UK. That's because in the same job where someone in the UK would earn £30,000, an American would generally only earn $30,000.

Prices are set at whatever the market will stand, and you only have to listen to a couple of those IGN podcasts (well, I like them) to learn that Americans feel that $600 for a PS3 is way too high... even though, to us in the UK, it's around £300, which is what I paid for my Xbox 360/CoD3/GoW bundle.

It's a difficult concept to get your head around, I agree, but we're not really being ripped off. Then again, I'm going to the States in August, so I might just buy a PS3 to rest my feet on for the flight home, since they're only £300. :wink2:

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

i get you now, thats why Forza 2 is only £25 on amazon.com and is region free :nuts:

I might get the uk collectors edition tho

[The_Bandit]

Is Forza deffinatly Region Free? Can get it cheaper at Play Asia than Amazon if it is.

And true that the $ does pretty much equal the £ when it its resident country. If you add on taxes and import duty to everything you want to buy from the states and import it works out roughly the same, sometimes more expensive.

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

yeah i googled "is forza 2 region free?" and theres loads of pages saying it is, and i found this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XBOX-360-FORZA-MOTORSPORT-2-NEW-SEALED-UK-SELLER_W0QQitemZ120084178564QQihZ002QQcategoryZ112 847QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[The_Bandit]

I guessed it would be but no confirmation on play asia so until then I wont believe it. Google Test drive region free and it says it is when it isn't. But for £25 and getting it earlier I think it is worth the risk.

[JohnMono]

It's not really. Things are cheaper in America because they earn less than we do. $600 to an American feels like £600 does to us here in the UK. That's because in the same job where someone in the UK would earn £30,000, an American would generally only earn $30,000.

Prices are set at whatever the market will stand, and you only have to listen to a couple of those IGN podcasts (well, I like them) to learn that Americans feel that $600 for a PS3 is way too high... even though, to us in the UK, it's around £300, which is what I paid for my Xbox 360/CoD3/GoW bundle.

It's a difficult concept to get your head around, I agree, but we're not really being ripped off. Then again, I'm going to the States in August, so I might just buy a PS3 to rest my feet on for the flight home, since they're only £300. :wink2:

I disagree, in the case of TDU at least. I remember explicitly statements about the pricing because they intended to make more profit on the vast amount of DLC that was going to be available. Hence the reduced price. Your argument would stand if ALL Xbox games in the US were around the $30 point. But they are not.

[The_Bandit]

US games are around $50-$60. UK games are £40-£50. It works out that US games are cheaper than UK versions by at least 25%.

The fact that $50 in the US gets you what £40 in the UK gets you yet $50 is around £25 kind of proves Happy's post as being closer to correct than you think.

Not to mention, salary in the US is lower than in the UK. As it has been said before, £30,000 in the UK is like $30,000 in the US, however it is more like £30,000 in the UK is like $40,000 in the US.

It is basically along the same lines of monies value over time. For instance, back in 1987 it cost £1.99 for a Spectrum 128K +2 game. 20 years later it costs £39.99 but in 1987 £2 was probably the equivalent of £10 today.

Figgures above are fictional and used only to illustrate a point.

[blacklie]

This topic is going way out of it's main focus....HARDCORE* MODE

u guys are talking about the prices of UK and USA games...Come here to estonia
older xbox360 games are 80$ and newer to 100 bucks NO joke-
Avarage human here earns about 150k.- per year that's =around 11,000$!!!

AND just case im offtopic then hardcore mode is your choice if u want it u pay for it if u dont then wont[hardcore mode makes the driving more like realistic so your choiceX2]

[blacklie]

THe_MOle is our only trusty informator here because..u know hes/shes admin and :atari:

But yeah if u dont like the package or u don't wan't to pay then who asks u to download it ? lol :laugh: :laugh:
NOTE: be smart tho just wait some months to get some clearence about the game/dlc mayby if we are lucky they meake combined packages
__<>_ __~_ ______
|^_^| |^_^| / __ \
[ ]____[ ] <<< |_ _| | |
|__| |_|

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

THe_MOle is our only trusty informator here because..u know hes/shes admin and :atari:

But yeah if u dont like the package or u don't wan't to pay then who asks u to download it ? lol :laugh: :laugh:
NOTE: be smart tho just wait some months to get some clearence about the game/dlc mayby if we are lucky they meake combined packages
__<>_ __~_ ______
|^_^| |^_^| / __ \
[ ]____[ ] <<< |_ _| | |
|__| |_|


We were promised it so even if its 1p shouldnt spend a penny extra

[IcedSkylineR32]

£1.36 thats how much this DL will cost i dont know what the big hype is about now im not to sure on prices of drink (i just hand over cash and go) but im sure £1.36 will prob get you half a pint give or take(correct if wrong)

id pay that for hardcore mode

[Vieon]

Uh, why don't we stop moaning and actually appreciate their hard work? If you're too cheap to pay £1.36 then just don't buy the mode. Atari won't get the money, and won't be able to put it to good use in developing more stuff.

And don't give me that guff about the 'principle'. They're a business - their aim is to make money.

[ZetecAndy]

Is hardcore mode worth having if you dont have a wheel though?

[voodoov2]

Is hardcore mode worth having if you dont have a wheel though?
i suspect it probably would be as the actual input method is less relevant than you might think - what's important is your individual perception of how the car responds to what you want it to do from your control inputs.

although i'm not going to buy it, i'm sure hardcore mode will make for a better game experience - for those people that like more sim-based dynamics.

i used to play gran turismo 2 on the good old ps2 and loved the improved driving dynamics over older racing games and that was without a wheel.

as long as the car on screen does what you expect it to do, isn't that what counts? hc mode can only help that?

[DRIVEITLIKEUSTOLEIT]

whats the point in buying a wheel?, its not a car so why try and vmake it one?

[JohnMono]

whats the point in buying a wheel?, its not a car so why try and vmake it one?

Ooooh, you must never have used one! Admittedly it's not the most realistic experience you'll ever have, and it will probably impair your driving initially with respect to the controller...but it makes the experience far more involving. You actually have to concentrate a bit rather than just throwing your thumb left and right :)

[Hengist]

And don't give me that guff about the 'principle'. They're a business - their aim is to make money.
Yes you're quite correct. There is no need to mention 'principles' to you, as you seem not to understand the concept.

A business can still operate with respectable business practices, honour and integrity, and still make money. However, from your post, you also seem to demonstrate that you do not understand this basic concept as well.

[mugen20002]

did anyone else get a update when they turned on tdu today. i must of gotten one of those fake updates again?

[ViperGTSRconcept]

did anyone else get a update when they turned on tdu today. i must of gotten one of those fake updates again?
its just a minor one, when the real update is out, HCM mode will be out as well

[Madiz-GT]

Is it out already? http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747892/img_4156662.html
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747892/img_4156668.html

[r3trosic]

Is it out already? http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747892/img_4156662.html
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747892/img_4156668.htmlNah, it's part of the developer diary, the second part of which you can read here:

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/754/754032p1.html