View Full Version : Fair Not Square - Hardcore Rally
Panzer_Walrus
11-07-2007, 12:42
Please use this thread for any posts about the SP challenge-based Rally events uploaded to The Diners across the Island.
Bear in mind the following rules, please:
1. NO reference to the unofficial patch. Requested by Mods, please don't abuse this folks.
2. No overkill on hi-res screenies. Links to images uploaded on other sites would be perfect, thumbnails would be OK in moderation.
3. Lamers who think they're uber by doing the events in normal mode (or in a bike or class A car before the patch) can take their immaturity elsewhere.
4. There are no more rules. I hate rules!
Panzer_Walrus
11-07-2007, 12:43
Starting tonight, this is going to be a stage by stage test of different skills for anyone who wants to participate. PLEASE DO NOT JOIN IN IF YOU ARE RUNNING WITH THE ALPHA PATCH!!!
It's open to any FNS member to create their own stages, I've uploaded the first to the diner tonight and will add the 2nd in 2 days time once the first one has closed. They won't follow every 2 days from me, but if anyone else wants to put a stage in, please say so in this thread so that you all don't create stages at once.
Why that rule? Well, ideally each stage should start pretty much where the last one finished!
I've NOT used a driving meter, but I have used traffic (2 stars out of 5) with GPS and route marking. The race rules specify no driver aids but I can't specify HC only, so it's a trust thing Cars are class B - class D.
You'll notice that my checkpoints are often placed so that you have to drive round difficult corners and junctions on the road - so don't be tempted to cut corners everywhere!
Stage 1 is evil, but I thought the start point was suitable for such a great event. Stage 2 is less evil but still will test your abiity to stay in control at higher speeds and judge when to stamp on the brakes.
Stage 3? I'll create one, but will happily stand by if anyone else wants a go at it. Just don't go much over 10-15 miles unless using very fast roads please.
I may have to launch my HC career with a try around those missions. Please don't laugh at my times... ;)
Panzer_Walrus
11-07-2007, 17:10
Just post the times or screenshot image links that you want us to see :)
And don't get frustrated with Stage 1. It's very demanding in Hardcore - but that's the point!
Just be patient and always brake too much too soon than too little too late. Then you can push a little harder on successive attempts.
BTW, the "reference time" is the time I set on a test drive. I *did* restart the test drive a couple of times, as I hadn't driven that mountain road before and made a right mess of things. It's very beatable, very.
Panzer_Walrus
11-07-2007, 21:28
Link to FRAPS shot to follow.....
Stage 1: 6m 55.8s
Noble M12
BritishBeef
15-07-2007, 15:14
Totally missed them unless they are still runnin... check in a min.
I remember u tellin me dude but totally forgot.
Let me know any info directly as id love to challenge myself on them.
EDIT #1 hey PW do u mind if u pm me ur MSN address so if ur not up to racing u can still chat or give directions or even let me know of races u have made.... would help with organisation to dude.
SenninhaDE
15-07-2007, 16:08
------------
Panzer_Walrus
15-07-2007, 21:36
Will repost the event tonight or Monday.
I think that the events get saved in my profile as .dfe files. I'd like to send some to any willing guinea pig to see if they can drop them into their own profile and see if they work.
I have an MSN account but it's always off :D
If anyone wants to PM me their email addy, I'll create an address group and send stuff round that way.
Panzer_Walrus
15-07-2007, 22:50
FNS HC Rally Stage 1 (will be) reposted for 3 days at a Diner near you (on Monday). (Spot the edit!)
Stages 2-4 are also done. Challenging but not stupid - I hope!
Will do things like an Espirit or Exige (for example) only stage - or a Miura only stage if people want.
Again, if we can share .dfe files then we dont need to use the Diner!
Using the Diner, we have to put up with non-HC drivers times. Oh well.
7m 17 was my Stage 1 test drive time, 6m 55 was my time after some practice.
Nascarbuc
16-07-2007, 10:51
Hey Panz, great initiative !
It would be nice if you implemented the driving meter at the tightest settings possible though, as it would be the most effective way to deter most of the careless arcaders. Your first stage is set in my favorite spot i believe (Old Mercedes delivery mission road is that right ?) and yeah having to go through the whole thing without touching grass or other bumpers is like hell but that"s the goal isnt it ?
About driving aids, i noticed something weird when turning them off (i always drive on Hypersport) and i'd like you to try one thing : hop into a Viper, while in first gear push the gas pedal until you're in the red zone then release the gas pedal brutally. In my case the wheels slipped. I repeated the steps while in outside view to see if my pedals were set as a combined axis (cant see it in the XP controller setup panel) but the stop lights dont blink even slightly. I have always believed the engine brake was way too strong in the game and that would confirm it. I didnt have this problem in Hypersport though so it would tend to vindicate my feeling that the no driving aids option makes driving unrealistically harder than it should be.
Hey thanks again for shaking things up in the small HC world.
Panzer_Walrus
16-07-2007, 11:23
Hi there mate!
About the settings:
I *may* use the driving meter, certainly in stages where there's really no excuse for wandering off road. However, there's a balance to be struck between 100% "realism" as in "don't hit anything, don't get grass on the tyres" and the need to incentivise people to push hard and have fun on the challenges.
When the rally gets onto more "open" roads, then we may well see the driving meter. On the evil hairpins (Stage 1 and Stage 4 especially so far), the only way to get any sort of adrenaline-filled "good" time is to take crests on the wrong side of the road, straight-line faster curves and, sometimes, hang a wheel off the kerb whilst "undertaking" an AI car to get in good position for the next tight bend.
As for Hypersport / No aids...............don't use a Viper :salut2: Actually, it's a sop to us in club FNS as we cruise with no aids on all the time. A few of us like the Noble M12 which has a rear end from hell in 1st and 2nd gears but gives big rewards if you keep it all lined up.
Let's see what handling adjustments are made by the patch!
Thanks for your feedback mate, Stage 1 will be online tonight, stage 2 probably Thursday.
Nascarbuc
16-07-2007, 13:03
All good, except the Viper part lol, since i got the G25 it has become my favorite car because of how fast you get the rear off and how controllable the slips are. But i'll try the Noble anyway, i got the M14 but not this one, will correct that !
I spent most of yesterday driving from dealership to dealership to grab as many different cars as i could and your challenge will be an awesome testing ground !!!
See ya there.
Panzer_Walrus
17-07-2007, 01:12
Well, I can't see it myself in the diner challenge list, but I hope you can.
Here's a target for you to shoot at:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/Walrus26/TestDriveUnlimited2007-07-1700-04-0.jpg
Good luck and keep track of your best time for later compilation with other stages.
Nascarbuc
17-07-2007, 20:22
Hey man, i've spent a few hours driving today but couldnt find your challenge in the diners.
Panzer_Walrus
17-07-2007, 22:22
Hey man, i've spent a few hours driving today but couldnt find your challenge in the diners.
Must be a patch thing, I couldn't see it either although, when I clicked on my own version, it said it was active.
*scratches head*.
Will try again in a couple of days, when it expires.
Sorry it's such a pain to get going folks. It seemed like a good idea at the time!
I also tried to find it, but nothing was showing up. Probably they are still sorting things up.
Anyway, your time looks pretty hard to beat... tonguegre
Best time of 7min 11sec so far (2 or 3 goes trying different cars) in a untuned group C. I lost a lot of time on the bottom section.
Also finding the 5min 53 hard to believe in an RS4 in HC mode - Are Audis that good?
Definitely more to come, but probably not a minute worth!
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h105/HowardJacks/junk/fns1.jpg
Panzer_Walrus
18-07-2007, 11:09
Best time of 7min 11sec so far (2 or 3 goes trying different cars) in a untuned group C. I lost a lot of time on the bottom section.
Also finding the 5min 53 hard to believe in an RS4 in HC mode - Are Audis that good?
Hi HJ, long time no see!
The diner challenges DO NOT let me create the event as Hardcore Only. Normal mode drivers CAN use it, but I can control the "No Driving Aids" element.
That's why there's no prize money ;) We'll just keep track of the HC users via this thread. People have not been able to see the event in the diner though - I know I haven't seen it since I uploaded it!
Mental note - need to go on it tonight.
If anyone wants to race the rally stages and can't see it in the diner, PM me with an email addy and I'll send you the .dfe files.
Wuggizle
18-07-2007, 12:35
Just had a quick go, I was 7 seconds behind after all the twists and turns the TVR is weak at that, but soon as I was in the city I made the time up :)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/wuggizle/score.jpg
EDIT: 34 hours left of this challenge panz.
EDIT2: lol ignore that I forgot I was meant to do it in HC.
Panzer_Walrus
18-07-2007, 12:54
My jaw hit the floor at the top of your post mate, but then I read the small print at the bottom :)
Any general thoughts on the stage layout?
Too long, too short, too twisty, not twisty enough?
The eventual aim is use all sorts of roads but I want to bias more towards technical rather than all-out speed challenges. Of course, a lot will depend on whereabouts on the Island the rally visits.......
Wuggizle
18-07-2007, 13:06
Yeh it was really good, maybe the next one could be all country side then the last one all city since the first one is a mix of both :)
Anyway I just re did it in HC and here is the result:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/wuggizle/scoe2.jpg
Im going to try and do it in my wiesseman see what I get.
Great rally though!
EDIT: Tried in Wiesseman (Sp most likely) and I made up 5 seconds around the corners over last time, but soon as a straight came it was game over!
Nascarbuc
18-07-2007, 13:28
Kewl the challenge appears on my side. God i was supposed to work this afternoon. Oh well no more than an hour then and i get back to working. Maybe 2 hours top.
My first two attempts at stage 1:
http://www.fouclan.com/files/fns_hc_rally_stage_1_first_try.jpg
http://www.fouclan.com/files/fns_hc_rally_stage_1_second_try.jpg
Panzer_Walrus
18-07-2007, 22:09
Pink spangly gauntlet accepted :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/Walrus26/TestDriveUnlimited2007-07-1821-00-1.jpg
I did make a couple of minor errors, braking too early once and outbraking myself (badly) once - maybe 2 or 3 seconds max. I personally can't get much faster than this without a manual clutch / pedal /wheel setup.
Can someone tell me how to add the width and height HTML to create thumbnails? Ta! (Mods, can you advise me?)
Wuggizle
19-07-2007, 00:13
Very nice times panz and kitten, looks like I have my work cut out!
Nascarbuc
19-07-2007, 02:51
God i suck !!!! cant get under 7' and i've tried for 2 hours... will try some more tomorrow. Depressing.
Panzer_Walrus
19-07-2007, 09:33
What are you driving? Not that Viper of yours....?
Nascarbuc
19-07-2007, 11:31
Yeah i started with the cars i really enjoy even though it's pretty obvious they're the worst cars for this kind of course, Viper, Mustang GTR, GT40, Corvette C6, Z06, but also the funniest car for this kind of course : Tvr Tuscany... all stock as i cant stand the tuning model in HC.
Sure, i dont think i can compete with the best scores but it's failure at consistency that keeps me from breaking the 7' barrier.
I hope your challenge stays on for a while because it's an awesome benchmark. Great job.
Panzer_Walrus
19-07-2007, 13:27
You really need to try the Lotus Exige and the Noble M12. They will be slower overall on the straights, but they will astound you with their grip and agility in the twisty stuff.
You can take on the Sagaris if you want, but be warned it's Wugz's trademark car and it may not be so....compliant for mere mortals like us.
Wuggizle
19-07-2007, 13:53
Yep I was just about to try again with my TVR, but I cant seem to connect today :( Hope I can get on soon.
I had another go today when the server stopped playing up.
I have to say though that personally I don't like the traffic being on, I had to restart so many times because it got in the way. Because I had to go around it so much in the first section alone I noticed a 2 second difference between times when it was or wasn't in the way. So for me it became a test of patience rather than actual driving ability.
Just my opinion but here's my time =^.^=
http://www.fouclan.com/files/fns_hc_rally_stage_1_third_try.jpg
Wuggizle
19-07-2007, 20:01
I agree with the traffic thingy :)
Panzer_Walrus
19-07-2007, 20:58
Traffic off on future events, no problem.
I *knew* Kitten would go faster *sigh*.
Good work!
Wuggizle
19-07-2007, 21:01
I cant compete with her in the noble, im always at least 5 seconds behind! Might try doing it in my Ford GT
Panzer_Walrus
20-07-2007, 14:35
I think the Stage 1 challenge has run out of time now.
If more folks had tried it and got evidence of their times, I would start collating the info. I still might, if the same people continue to race the events!
It's fair to say that Kitten needs some reverse engineering applied to her entire collection of vehicles before the next Stage begins :respect:
Anway, I'll upload Stage 2 tonight if I get the chance. It should appear in the Diners before tomorrow night then, :atari: A different test to Stage 1, for sure :)
Wuggizle
20-07-2007, 15:43
:)
Il do all the stages, gotta make up like 15 seconds somehow!
Panzer_Walrus
20-07-2007, 17:58
:)
Il do all the stages, gotta make up like 15 seconds somehow!
Slash Kitten's tyres. dark:
Wuggizle
20-07-2007, 18:23
Its done :respect:
Panzer_Walrus
20-07-2007, 23:52
I've reconfigured Stage 2 for no traffic as per feedback. It's been uploaded, so let's wait for it to appear in the Diners.
Really really easy test time to beat as I was FRAPS recording it, therefore getting lower FPS and little lags.
This course should suit a range of cars, more so than Stage 1.
The Test Drive vid is being compressed as I type and should be on youtube by midnight if you want to check out the route first.
Anyone else got FRAPS installed and fancies their hand at video making?
Wuggizle
21-07-2007, 01:20
Very nice, had a quick go with my TVR but came off twice but here ya go.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/wuggizle/stage2tvr.jpg
Im going to wait for kitten and yourself to post a proper time so I have something to aim for tonguegre
Panzer_Walrus
21-07-2007, 01:25
Thought you'd like this stage in your Trevor, Wugz :)
Here's a link to the s l o w test drive (5m 35)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rn49kN25hLw
Will have a proper go at it tomorrow night, don't know if I'm crazy enough to get the Farboud out :nuts:
Wuggizle
21-07-2007, 01:29
mdr1
I gave it a quick go in the Farbound but didnt finish, I felt a bit like a criminal in using a different car on the stage that the TVR is best at so im not going to use another car :D Theres a challenge! Unless im always 10 seconds behind no matter what I do.
EDIT: great vid! If the Gallardo had a bit more speed it would be great, it feels a bit tame though.
Panzer_Walrus
21-07-2007, 21:40
Something to sharpen your competitive edge folks.......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/Walrus26/FNSHardcoreRallyStage2.jpg
Perhaps a couple more seconds in there (made 2 mistakes), but not much more without taking stupid risks.
I just been running this challenge too PW and i'm good at stupid risks so...
http://www.fouclan.com/files/fns_hc_rally_stage_2_forth_try.jpg
=^.^=
Wuggizle
22-07-2007, 04:32
Great Kitten has set a great time as per usual, I got 25 seconds to find, looks like il have no choice but to use my Farbound :(
Panzer_Walrus
23-07-2007, 21:45
Got down to 5.06, pressed video record in FRAPS instead of screenshot :cry:
Will have another few goes if poss tonight.
Stage 3 is the hairpin craziness road that runs off of the Stage 2 loop. GOing to make it Class D only - or even Espirit only! Thoughts?
Wuggizle
24-07-2007, 15:33
Class D :P, then I can use my Wieseman.
I'd forgotten all about these challenges. And now I have full HC mode, I can compete... And you can all laugh...
Panzer_Walrus
25-07-2007, 13:50
I'd forgotten all about these challenges. And now I have full HC mode, I can compete... And you can all laugh...
It's more of a chance for us to do standardised events and test our own abilities against other drivers' benchmarks rather than a "competition"....well, it is to me!
GBFGrouse
25-07-2007, 14:42
Heres a laugh, I had a go in my XJ220 and quit just before the line at 5.59 :nuts:.
Though in the Ascari I could probally get into a low 5 - 5.10 as I do really well (champion time 4.49.?? and Im at +0.08 at checkpoint 4). Then you get to the jumps and I take off and usually lose control (so many restarts, maybe Im pushing too hard tonguegre )
Practice makes perfect though so Ill have to keep up my flying lessons :rolleyes: when Ive got the spare time and we are not cruising.
GB|F.Grouse
It's more of a chance for us to do standardised events and test our own abilities against other drivers' benchmarks rather than a "competition"....well, it is to me!
I see it as a bit of fun and a good way to see how well we do under different road conditions when we try.
It seems I have been fastest on each stage so far but it gives people something to aim for right? :)
=^.^=
GBFGrouse
25-07-2007, 14:57
Dont you worry Kitten Ill beat you at least once :) , cant have you winning every race :p
GB|F.Grouse
Panzer_Walrus
25-07-2007, 21:59
Stage 3 has just been uploaded. It's not a hairpin stage - that's next :)
Anyway, for a change it's class D only. Still lots of choices - Maserati, DB9, Espirit for example. All very different cars on a stage with some good speedy bits. Corner speed is still important as these cars don't accelerate as fast as a Farboud or Sagaris :)
Test time in my 90 year old Maserati below. I'm sure that there's plenty of scope for us to improve on that!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/Walrus26/FNSHArdcoreRallyStage3.jpg
Hope you are enjoying the events.
Wuggizle
25-07-2007, 23:48
Il have to go with my crappy 55 seconds slower than Kitten in Rally 2.. Panzer you're the only hope in beating her :bravo: I raced her round the track in Skylines yesturday, no prizes for guessing who won. Im too scared to race her in my TVR :(
Panzer_Walrus
26-07-2007, 00:41
Il have to go with my crappy 55 seconds slower than Kitten in Rally 2.. Panzer you're the only hope in beating her :bravo: I raced her round the track in Skylines yesturday, no prizes for guessing who won. Im too scared to race her in my TVR :(
If she's got a manual clutch setup, then I'll never catch her :) If not, well there's always hope.......or I'll take her on in my King Tiger. That should do it dark:
Wuggizle
26-07-2007, 01:38
King Tiger vs a innocent Kitten? :nono:
King Tiger vs a annoying fast kitten 10sur10 mdr1 :chapeau:
Just joking of course :) :laugh:
First for PW and anyone else interested I do not use a manual clutch I just don't find it that great. yes it makes shifting gears quicker but I found it takes some of the fun out.
As for my time on this stage I was alittle suprised. it took several runs as I tried a few different cars out but this was my best result.
http://www.fouclan.com/files/fns_hc_rally_stage_3_forth_try.jpg
I knew the Aston was good but it wasn't the car I expected to get the best time in.
=^.^=
Wuggizle
30-07-2007, 00:13
noo I did my time yesturday and print screened it, then forgot about it sour:
hehe lol it was 4 minute something... 4"09"98 i think :bravo: :bravo: :chapeau: ;)
First for PW and anyone else interested I do not use a manual clutch I just don't find it that great. yes it makes shifting gears quicker but I found it takes some of the fun out.
As for my time on this stage I was alittle suprised. it took several runs as I tried a few different cars out but this was my best result.
http://www.fouclan.com/files/fns_hc_rally_stage_3_forth_try.jpg
I knew the Aston was good but it wasn't the car I expected to get the best time in.
=^.^=
Hi mates, (MAXLD_XT here) these "FNS HC Rally Stages" are very cool, I tried them all, but I think I didnīt won any, but thats not important, I'm having a great time.
I don't use Hardcore mode, and didn't noticed that they are intended to harcore mode only. Sry about that. :noooo:
Thanks anyway for the challenges. :salut2:
any chance of another PW? Just checked and it looks like the time limit is up. Completly missed this thread (somehow :mefiant: )
Panzer_Walrus
30-07-2007, 19:00
@MaxLD
You are welcome mate - thanks a lot for the feedback! Try again in hardcore mate and test yourself :)
@Cube
I have a stage 4, going down the hairpin section from where Stage 3 finishes. I'll probably end up doing some more stages soon enough, as I enjoy the challenge myself and it gives us all something to do until they fix club racing.
@all.
Seeing as I was crocked for 2 days and unable to use the PC, I have no shame in admitting that I'm going to have go at this tonight or tomorrow as I have it on my own PC in the challenges section :) Can't see me beating Kitten, but I've only driven this event once so far and want to post a realistic time :)
@Cube
I have a stage 4, going down the hairpin section from where Stage 3 finishes. I'll probably end up doing some more stages soon enough, as I enjoy the challenge myself and it gives us all something to do until they fix club racing.
hey brilliant can't wait for that installment!
Panzer_Walrus
31-07-2007, 15:02
hey brilliant can't wait for that installment!
It might appear online tonight........need to do a decent FRAPS vid first!
Did one last night with a great run....only to realise that I had FRAPS looking for the wrong audio source so there's no engine noise. I did get a screenie of the finish time though, will post it tonight. And that was with the frame rate hit caused by FRAPS :) Think it was 5m 28 or somesuch and no driving meter faults.
Did I mention the driving meter? It's going to be a regular feature from now on, so don't be tempted into doing any sneaky corner-cutting! It's at a very generous 50. I'll most likely reduce that to say 10 or 20 for future stages. Just to focus everyone :)
Watch this space.
Panzer_Walrus
31-07-2007, 18:56
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/Walrus26/TestDriveUnlimited2007-07-3023-41-0.jpg
Stage 4 now online, have fun!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/Walrus26/TestDriveUnlimited2007-07-3023-41-0.jpg
Stage 4 now online, have fun!
just going to have a try now :bravo:
Well, I have to say that's probably the last time I played Hardcore mode... the only thing similar to that was the "Lunar Gravity" cheat on Carmageddon 2. It's ridiculous...
I've to search for other challenges. Have fun. :)
Panzer_Walrus
31-07-2007, 21:38
Well, I have to say that's probably the last time I played Hardcore mode... the only thing similar to that was the "Lunar Gravity" cheat on Carmageddon 2. It's ridiculous...
I've to search for other challenges. Have fun. :)
Max, you can still do the challenge in normal mode. It's not possible to lock-in HArdcore only with the settings.
Just don't go boasting about your times in this thread :)
Max, you can still do the challenge in normal mode. It's not possible to lock-in HArdcore only with the settings.
Just don't go boasting about your times in this thread :)
Sure, I tried, I really did. About 3 ou 4 times, but the "50 gauge" was a little bit short and the handling itself is not very real I think... so the speed is very slow on those twisty roads... more time braking than accelerating... tonguegre
Panzer_Walrus
31-07-2007, 22:41
Stage 5 will be less twisty :)
As the rally stage builder, I get to indulge my love of difficult, technical driving in cars more suited to handling than outright speed.
I do build "fast" stages too, stage 2 was owned by the Farboud GTS for example.
Stage 4 is perhaps as evil as it will ever get. I don't even think Kelelole Pass is as difficult as stage 4 dark:
Evil is good mdr1
Stage 5 will be less twisty :)
As the rally stage builder, I get to indulge my love of difficult, technical driving in cars more suited to handling than outright speed.
I do build "fast" stages too, stage 2 was owned by the Farboud GTS for example.
Stage 4 is perhaps as evil as it will ever get. I don't even think Kelelole Pass is as difficult as stage 4 dark:
Evil is good mdr1
I agree, I prefer twisty ones, but with C or D class, real fun. I have also uploaded some twisty ones "Rally Stage x - ClassD" a few days ago... "Rally Stage 4 - ClassD" yesterday, but very few played it... maybe they are too long... I don't know... I like them like that. The map of one of them is very similar to this latest one (FNS HC Rally Stage 4).
Anyway, the only thing I don't like is those challenges without "driving meter", I hate curve cutters. :nono:
Panzer_Walrus
01-08-2007, 00:06
I'll look your "Rally Stages" up at the Diner Max.
Always looking for some twisty challenges!
I'll look your "Rally Stages" up at the Diner Max.
Always looking for some twisty challenges!
Nice, I've uploaded "Rally Stage 1 - ClassD" once again, just for the fun. :)
Driving meter? Oh dear. :(
Back to blue road collecting for me then.
I've posted it in the FNS forums but here it is again for all to see
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8982/fnshcrallyst4rs1pe2.th.jpg (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fnshcrallyst4rs1pe2.jpg)
Only gave this one 3 tries and has a few penelties.
http://sukena.tigress.org.uk/FNS_HC_Rally_Stage_4_Second_Try.jpg
=^.^=
Panzer_Walrus
02-08-2007, 21:32
Oh well, improved on Cube's time at least :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/Walrus26/FNSHCRallyStage4.jpg
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