Frame Rate Erosion

[humgoo]

The first thing I must do is thank everyone for all the great information on this board. I have been reading here for months looking for solutions to getting TDU running acceptably. I especially thank the author of TDU Tool Kit. My system is old and I am currently building a new one using information people post here about their systems. Tweaking this computer to run TDU has increased the performance of my other installed games so much that I am not getting rid of this computer, just adding it to my computer "museum", next to my old 486 and Voodoo cards.

I enjoy a challenge and have been determined to get TDU running on my current computer. I have come a long way with this old piece of hardware, TDU looks, sounds and drives superbly giving me frame rates in the mid- 20's to low 40's as long as I am not in proximity to Downtown Honolulu. That is obviously just too many objects to render and I avoid that place until I get the new system built. The rest of the Island is rendered adequately to magnificently with HDR on or off. I prefer it off as that provides better visual continuity with GTR 2 and my flight simulators.

I have run into a problem that is consistent. After approximately 20 minutes of free-driving or immediately after leaving a store or dealership, the frame rates drop to around 10 to 15 FPS. The only way to recover the higher frame rates I enjoy is to quit TDU and restart the game. Sometimes changing profiles will boost the frame rates for a short time but not as much as re-starting the game.

I don't experience this in any other game or program so its definitely something going on with TDU. Is there a code tweak or system setting that could stop this frame rate erosion? The fun part of the challenge is to fix it without spending any more money on this old system.

The system is XP Pro SP2, 3.0 HT gHz Prescott (Zalman cooled), X1950pro (agp) GPU, X-FI gamer Sound card, 1.5 GBs ddr 400 RAM.

I use a G25 Wheel.

[stevyd10]

I used to have a system basically the same (same gpu, ram and cpu) i never had any problems i was even running the game on the highest settings with fps of around 30-35. There must be some bottleneck in your system somewhere for the fps drop! maybe even a problematic hdd and the game cannot read the files quick enough?

[humgoo]

Thanks for the response. I needed to hear it again that TDU can run better on a system such as mine. I have wondered about the HD access times and I did do a thorough defrag of the drive (seagate 7200rpm) which improved the performance of every program including TDU. I don't experience the same gradual loss of performance in any other game, though. For example, I am running Crysis on this computer at 30 to 50 FPS with medium graphics, GTR2 at 50 to 150 FPS at full details, CFS3 Firepower maxed out at 30+ FPS.

This problem is TDU specific on this computer.

With TDU I don't see a huge difference in frame rates between the various "settings" in the game. After much experimentation I run it at 1024x 768, 2x aa, 4x aniostrophic (the X1950 handles that fine) details to "medium", Birds and bits of paper are always "off" (huge difference). When I turn off the vehicle traffic it does much better, but I still experience an erosion of performance over time with or without aa or aniostrophic.



I used to have a system basically the same (same gpu, ram and cpu) i never had any problems i was even running the game on the highest settings with fps of around 30-35. There must be some bottleneck in your system somewhere for the fps drop! maybe even a problematic hdd and the game cannot read the files quick enough?

[stevyd10]

one thing you might want to look at is temperatures for your cpu when ingame and see if when the fps drops if the temperature is above normal. Now as you said that there isn't a problem with any other game I wouldn't expect this to be a problem. Also I realize this probably would probably have been one of the first thing you would have tried but make sure that all the drivers are up to date.

As a final test you might want to try re-install tdu.


p.s. have you run any ram or hdd checks to check for bad sectors/faulty ram modules?

[humgoo]

Thanks again.

I have been wondering about heat issues and have been watching them for a while. The CPU runs at 44 Celsius when idle and goes up to about 57-63 when running TDU which is within normal, but still kind of hot. Video card is well within limits. I have run memtest on the RAM and found nothing wrong, but I didn't run it for very long, just one pass. Hard Drive checks out ok but earlier today I felt it with my fingers after TDU started to jitter and it seemed hot. I might install a second case fan.

I have the door off the case right now and a friend is driving TDU monitoring the temperatures and frame rates. (I am on another computer)

Video Drivers are up to date. I use Omegas. A few months ago I was running a Nvidia 7900OS agp which was very good for TDU except for sound stutter issues. That card burnt itself to a crisp (defective) and so XFX sent me a nice 8800GT as a replacement. I will put that in the new computer. I bought the X1950agp after reading a recommendation in this forum.

And then again, maybe a reinstall will clear things up ....

one thing you might want to look at is temperatures for your cpu when ingame and see if when the fps drops if the temperature is above normal. Now as you said that there isn't a problem with any other game I wouldn't expect this to be a problem. Also I realize this probably would probably have been one of the first thing you would have tried but make sure that all the drivers are up to date.

As a final test you might want to try re-install tdu.


p.s. have you run any ram or hdd checks to check for bad sectors/faulty ram modules?

[stevyd10]

Video Drivers are up to date. I use Omegas.

ah, That might be your problem. I had very bad framerates with the Omegas drivers. I suggest you revert back to the ati drivers as it might fix your issue.

[kalniel]

Definitely head back to official drivers, they're very good these days.

The other question is what is your power supply?

[humgoo]

I will update the drivers with official ones. Thankyou.

Power Supply read on.

.... here is the whole sordid story.

I started using the Omegas again after blowing up the Nvidia Card back in January, I mentioned I had sound issues with that card. TDU ran really well on full details except for a regular hiccup or stutter. I took out my Hercules sound card and noticed that the stuttering disappeared. I then enabled onboard sound and found that it was no longer functioning.

Ohh.... I forgot to mention the BSODs that started appearing when I first installed the 7900. I suspected Power so I put in an Antec 430 and took out every non-essential PCI device while troubleshooting ... anyways...

Back to the sound issue.

I happened to have an old SBlive card so I stuck it in to see if I could perhaps get sound back. There was a burning smell and I immediately cut power. It was the NVidia card burning out and very fortunate those PCI devices were out of the computer.

I sent the 7900 card back to XFX and replaced the motherboard with another identical one in good condition I happened to have laying around. Windows sees it as the original and that simplifies things. The original MB may or may not work, I am never using it again because I believe it is completely hooped and it smells funny.

While shopping around for a good deal on a X1950 agp I was using an X800. I added the SB X-Fi Extreme gamer sound card to help take the load off the CPU (it really works well). I was getting better frame rates with the x800 running Omegas, although with lower resolution, than with the X1950.

The X1950 has only been in the computer for about a month and its working excellent! COD4, Crysis, GTR2, NFS, RB6Vegas, GAW2, CFS3 ... everything ... is super-happy-fun-time ... except for TDU, the only one I really, really want.

I can't/won't build the new computer until this one is totally fixed and TDU is running as good as it should be. I have invested too much time an energy to quit now and just build another computer although once it is built I probably won't care any more ... that's why I am compelled (obsessed) to fix it now.


I will update my progress later.

Definitely head back to official drivers, they're very good these days.

The other question is what is your power supply?

[matthijsborgdorff]

lol humgoo,

reading your story is almost like I wrote it myself, I did in fact, many times on these forums. I spent a lot of energy and even some money to try to get TDU to run well on my system which was pretty much identical to yours. Not without success I must add. At first it was a slideshow, when I was done with it after A LOT of messing about and changing stuff, it was very playable with a bit of frustration on some more urban areas of the island.

Now however, I got a new pc this week, the latest stuff that decent money can buy and TDU is a whole new experience I can tell you! It is finally playing the way it's supposed to run and it feels like I'm playing it properly for the first time. 60-85 fps everywhere, you don't even notice being in an urban area, no stutters EVER, not a single hiccup and everything is smooth as butter. Don't lose a single frame anymore from using my G25 either. Whereas on old pc I could stand still, turn the wheel and see the FPS drop with 10 frames or so.
Even the sound crackling disappeared.

So, my point is, your cause is noble and worth it, but you will never get it as sweet as on a modern gaming system. I was pretty much done with TDU but now I'll be playing it a whole lot more again! I'm loving it!

[humgoo]

... everything is smooth as butter...


I want that soooo bad. Oh well. I guess I better put the new system together. One thing I have read here is that TDU only uses one core. Is there going to be a fix for this? Is a quad 6600 at 2.4 gHz fast enough or does one have to over-clock it? I assume that since I am using a single core (with a virtual secondary core) at 3.0 gHz CPU and still experiencing frame rate slowdown, the over-all speed of all the components of a system is the most important factor, not just the CPU clock speed.

In the meantime I am evaluating the latest ATI official drivers which is going to take a few days.

The last time I got into a game that forced me to tweak a system this much and outlay cash for new hardware was Red Baron 2 as it evolved into Red Baron 3D.

[humgoo]

The official ATI drivers don't seem to make much difference.

I was thinking about this problem yesterday while driving around (in a real vehicle which has GREAT Framerates BTW) and decided on a whim to drop into a little computer place I know that makes PC systems for a great price. I made a deal with myself that if they had no systems pre-built, I would leave, I would not order one.

It just so happened that they had one in the back that someone had not picked up yet so I grabbed it - a basic Core duo quad Q6600 system, ASUS P5k-E WiFi MB, 2 GB DD2, big, fast hard drive, etc, XP Pro and my 8800GT.

So ... The first thing I do after setting up the drivers and everything is install TDU.

I am seeing over 600 FPS in the opening credits, 100+ FPS in the game shell, and smooth driving at between 65-90 FPS averaging at 75 FPS at FULL details, 4x anti-aliasing, no HDR.

It's brilliant ... I am starting the game from scratch ;)

Thanks for the responses, I go drive now...

[assiemodis]

Ive read about other forum members with a g25 wheel who experience the same problem and they blame the wheel for it maybe this is so in your case too. I don't experience it myself so I don't know if this is true.
Have you tried when the framerate drops to exit the game with alt-tab and then activate the game again

[stevyd10]

HEHE gdgd at least you got it working although probably not as cheaply as you wanted!

Just shows there is nothing better than a hardware upgrade

[matthijsborgdorff]

haha, TDU got you too! tonguegre So you went for the upgrade huh? Ya I'm sure you don't regret it at all! Ain't TDU sweet this way? mdr1

I did some overclocking of my pc now. Got my E8400 to run stable at 2 x 3.8Ghz with the memory running 1:1 @ 475mhz with 5 5 5 15 timings. I have 1900 mhz FSB now!! Lol it's pretty crazy and TDU is now running well over 100 fps a lot of the time now lol. It was hardly necessary but it's cool to notice a good difference.

Congratulations on your new system mate! Enjoy TDU the way it was meant to be played! :salut2:

[stevyd10]

I did some overclocking of my pc now. Got my E8400 to run stable at 2 x 3.8Ghz with the memory running 1:1 @ 475mhz with 5 5 5 15 timings.

Is the e8400 any good i was looking at upgrading from my e6600 to either that or the new q9450 not sure if i should go for quad core yet!

[Firebeast]

Well this whole story tells me one thing, that games and hardware go hand in hand.

As the developers get newer software and hardware to work with so their ability to create better games increases.

So updating every 2yrs or so makes perfect sense if one wants to experience games the way they are written.

[matthijsborgdorff]

Is the e8400 any good?

It's an awesome processor! It's the same price as the 6750 but it's quite a bit faster. I can heartily recommend it.
Unless you do a lot of video editing or other stuff that uses multiple cores really well, I wouldn't recommend getting a quad core yet. This E8400 is new fast and cheap. And it overclocks well too! Some have gotten it to 4.3 Ghz or more. Not that I recommend you do that though.
It also uses very little power and doesn't produce a whole lot of heat.

[cqdemal]

TC: Wait a minute. XFX replaced your 7900GS with a 8800GT?

What do I get if my 8800GTX is fried then? :laugh:

matthijsborgdorff: What motherboard are you using? What are the temps on the CPU and chipset? I just got an E8400 last Friday and I'm about to OC it myself.

[humgoo]

TC: Wait a minute. XFX replaced your 7900GS with a 8800GT?

What do I get if my 8800GTX is fried then? :laugh:



Yes they did and they also replaced it without me properly activating my warranty. I didn't realise that XFX lifetime warranty must be activated online within 30 days of purchase. It took a few eloquent emails, some slathering of praise and escalating up the line of command till they offered me the deal.

XFX has an exceptional warranty policy, I highly recommend them.

Anyways ... I can drive TDU properly now and I don't care anymore about all that other stuff ... I even managed to start an online profile, something that I never got around to before. It seemed all just a techno-nightmare-dream and now I am awake ... or am I still dreaming ? Whatever it is ...

It's sweet.

[stevyd10]

It's an awesome processor! It's the same price as the 6750 but it's quite a bit faster. I can heartily recommend it.

Sweet thanks, thats gonna be my next purchase then! I believe i am cpu limited atm especially in the more demanding games like crysis.

[matthijsborgdorff]

matthijsborgdorff: What motherboard are you using? What are the temps on the CPU and chipset? I just got an E8400 last Friday and I'm about to OC it myself.

Good stuff man, I know you'll have fun doing that.
I have an ASUS P5K SE motherboard.
The temperature of the processor when fully overclocked and under continued full stress by 2 threads of Prime95, got up to around 60 celcius.
In reality though, when playing Flight Simulator X for instance, using both cores fully, it never goes over 53.

Without overclocking, under full load two threads of Prime95 it never got over 54 celcius. I have to mention I have an aftermarket cooler though! With a stock intel cooler you will probably run into higher temperatures and may damage your processor. Please keep this in mind :)
I use the Zalman 7700Cu processor cooler.


I don't know the chipset temperature. Not sure if my motherboard can read it.
I am curious though since my FSB is currently at 1900 mhz! :nuts:

[Destroyer-GT]

Mine XFX 7800GTX got replaced for free with an 8600GTS