Wheel or joypad ? real sim racers !

[trouty65]

Hi guys i cant wait for this game to come out on the 360 and im sure simbin will deliver.

Just wondered how many of you will actually use a wheel and what sort of setups you have. i know the 360 wheel has had good reviews but compared to say the logitech G25 or microsoft sideiwinder ff im not sure wether to invest or wait and see whats in the pipeline ?

I played GTR on a sidewinder and it was awesome. I know some of the setups on pc's can be out of this world when it comes to simulations.

If simbin pull this off on the 360 and its as good as a pc sim racer then i would consider saving up and forking out for a decent setup.

This looks great ..

http://www.gameracer.co.uk/

but what wheel would be best ? and would i need a wheel to be competitive online?

Some of the fastest racers on the 360 use joypads what do you think ?

thanks

Paul

[kennedy2125]

Hi Trouty, there are only a few wheels you can use with the Xbox 360 anyway and they don't include the Logitech G25 or the the Sidewinder unfotunately.

I personally use the Microsoft wireless racing wheel with the Playseat Evolution seat from playseats.com. At the time it cost me about £270 for the seat and wheel accessory but it has gone up since then.

http://www.playseats.com/

I prefer to use a wheel which has an advantage when the host has all assists turned off. If assists are allowed then stick with a gamerpad because there is no advantage to either.

Just waiting for the day when a decent wheel will be released for the 360, preferably something like the G25.

[trouty65]

Nice one dude that looks awesome !!

Does it fold up ?

I want one :)

[kennedy2125]

Yeah it folds up to a size you would'nt believe. Its very stable aswell. And playseats sell all the accessories aswell. GAME also sell it here in the UK even cheaper than the manufacturer and better still all the accessories. Goto the following link to see more.

http://www.game.co.uk/search.aspx?platform=*&s=playseat&sort=itemOrderasc&page=1



I've been waiting for a sim for the 360 for ages to put my setup to the test. Forza was good but no proper race cars and the handling was a bit ****.

[VVV_Hellbr1ng3r]

I do enjoy using my wheel, but Im always faster with the pad :P

(Me, anyway)

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

i'm more comfortable with the pad, always found a wheel was slower... but then again that was back on Toca 3!

[VVV_Hellbr1ng3r]

Well, the news on Forza was that the best wheel user was always faster than the best pad user, but that doesnt apply to 100% of users.

picaso and cam are pad users and its not even funny how fast....:)

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

you get more Kudos for racing with the wheel too... i hope Race PRO isn't so relaistic that you need to go out and buy a wheel to be any good.

also why are all of the developers who are driving in the videos on youtube absolutely awful at their own game?

[VVV_Hellbr1ng3r]

(no offence to devs)

But usually they cant drive for toffee, and some of the videos were showing off the damage models, so erratic driving was forced.

Nah, you wont need a wheel to be competitive, I used the 360 pad on Race 07 on the PC, I was fine.

Stock setup F3000 on Curitiba Long after 15 laps got 33rd ;)

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

yeah i saw you're curitiba video. made me want this game even more ;D

[leahcim35]

Just wondered how many of you will actually use a wheel and what sort of setups you have.


I've got the MS wheel, just attached to an old table.

It's a bit low, but I manage.


and would i need a wheel to be competitive online?


Depends on the game, but given driving games in general, no. Of folk with top times some use the wheel, some the controller. In Forza 2 the erractic lock to lock steering of the controller is smoothed out by the game [you can see that in the telemetry of the top laps]

But, imagine that the game is really realistic [and according to the dev talking on the xbox inside when asked how close the game was to his Dodge Viper, he said "it's very close, as close as you can get without the g-forces " , then surely using a wheel is a no-brainer? Otherwise you just throw that realism out the window.

[nagge]

Of course a sim like this deserves a wheel. I use the wireless one hooked up to a playseat evo.

[mac_v2]

Well I think this a kind of old disscusion but...

The wheel should be better - to be faster, to control better, to be smoother, etc.

But... the other Game... just gave an extra help to controller users giving them steering assistance, without including the option to switch it off - nor block it.

This is the kind of assist that jet fighters jocks get with fly-by-wire systems like those of the F16 or the typhoon. As in those planes, switching off the computer render the pilot powerless to control the thing; with no assist driving with a stick would be difficult... racing with it: impossible!!

So I guess this is a though choice for a game developer, cater to hardcore simracers or to casual videogamers.

My view: I spent 100 USD on a wheel, I think I'd deserve that "unfair" advantage, The very same "UA" that I would get by investing on better equipment for racing in the Real life.

Looking forward to the release!

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

yeah but if spending money makes you faster then all you've got is a Karting simulator... the wheel is a more realistic way to use the game, you get more kudos for using it, but nobody should get a speed advantage :D

[PzR_Tak]

yeah but if spending money makes you faster then all you've got is a Karting simulator... the wheel is a more realistic way to use the game, you get more kudos for using it, but nobody should get a speed advantage :D

Totally agree here. The Wheel should be about the experience, rather than being significantly faster and a controller user should be able to compete "wheel to wheel" with anyone else on the same system.

[mac_v2]

Well thats the point... with steering assistance the controller guys have the upper hand on the wheel guys. The software not only smooth your movements off but it also provides greater accuracy in aspects of driving:

Traction limit control
Slip angle managment (the computer never "turns more than necessary)
Steering speed, how fast you run the wheel,

And a very long list.

will see.
:)

[VVV_Hellbr1ng3r]

Thats true, but the wheel gives you much greater control over your steering, and to a point on corners such as sweepers, tightening curves and Ovals, the wheel has a much larger advantage over the controller

[PerfectStrategy]

I decided to take the plunge and order the serious wheel because I want to use a normal shifter so I learn manual trans better and figure I won't need to worry about another wheel after this.

I did some research on this wheel and it seems to be very serious. They have sent out test wheels to users and some of them have even posted youtube videos.

I currently have the MS wheel which I will probably give away after I get this one. This wheel is supposed to have the full compatibility with games that the MS wheel offers. And also supposedly Fanatec are working with Simbin to support this wheel fully in Race Pro.

Here is the wheel:
http://www.fanatec.de/html/index.php?id=250&lang=en

I ordered the Pure edition because this way I save some money. I don't want the dongle for PS3/PC compatibility so that saves me $30. You can also use existing pedals from the MS wheel if you want to save another $50, but I really want the clutch pedal. Or you could also just use the paddle shifters and skip on the normal shifters, but I think I want the other shifters. So I ordered the Pure wheel + Shifter set + Basic pedals. The Clubsport pedals look ridiculously amazing, but that is a lot more money.

edit: Apparently it is also compatible with G25 pedals. I see those have a clutch pedal also.

[nagge]

When is the delivery on the Fanatec? I would get one if the delivery wasnt in June '09.

[VVV_Hellbr1ng3r]

G25 - It may be compatible with 360 as far as the basics, but I dont think the 360 supports the H-shifter and all that.

Dont quote me on that, but the G25 hasnt been compatible with any 360 Racing game as of yet.

[leahcim35]

Well thats the point... with steering assistance the controller guys have the upper hand on the wheel guys. The software not only smooth your movements off but it also provides greater accuracy in aspects of driving:


I think it's moot. Using the controller the vast majority of people would be slower than those who get the best times with the wheel...and TBH what's the point in comparing people who aren't the fastest - they are slower for lots of reasons, but not their choice of controller :)

Simply put, the controller isn't a magic "lap faster" device. [If anything the reverse is true, most controller based FPS games have aim assist, but this doesn't make them better or easier than keyboard / mouse it's done precisely because they are far worse...I see decades of evidence that a wheel is better for driving]

If your time is, say, in the top Forza times then perhaps you could worry about whether there is real tangible difference, but it's clear that you can get to the top with the wheel or controller. I doubt Race pro will be any different.

[PzR_Tak]

Simply put, the controller isn't a magic "lap faster" device. [If anything the reverse is true, most controller based FPS games have aim assist, but this doesn't make them better or easier than keyboard / mouse it's done precisely because they are far worse...I see decades of evidence that a wheel is better for driving]

If your time is, say, in the top Forza times then perhaps you could worry about whether there is real tangible difference, but it's clear that you can get to the top with the wheel or controller. I doubt Race pro will be any different.

Absolutely agree. I can set fast times with the controller in F2, but I can't use the wheel. With enough practice I could, but I don't have anywhere to store the wheel or anywhere to mount it when wanting to use it. The idea that anyone should have an automatic advantage for using a different controller is against the general idea of a console.

It's why I disagree with UT3 on the PS3 allowing Keyboard and Mouse input. The system is better in terms of accuracy, but where's the fun knowing that you can't compete with the best, as you aren't using the same hardware as them?

[PerfectStrategy]

When is the delivery on the Fanatec? I would get one if the delivery wasnt in June '09.
I think what is listed on their website is an estimate but that is most likely. I'm very anxious and it is hard to wait, but oh well. I figured I would be getting this thing anyway since it is the only wheel of its class so I might as well get in on the early discount and earliest shipping time. And I really didn't want to miss out on the wheel forever as it is limited to 10,000 units apparently.


G25 - It may be compatible with 360 as far as the basics, but I dont think the 360 supports the H-shifter and all that.

Dont quote me on that, but the G25 hasnt been compatible with any 360 Racing game as of yet.
Well G25 isn't compatible at all with 360, right?

It is hard to understand exactly what Fanatec is doing but I have been reading posts by Thomas on 911wheel.com. From what I gathered the wheel has the full compatibility of the MS wheel regarding force feedback, etc. So that is very good. Also, the sequential shifter is apparently supported on all racing games (I guess this isn't true for PS3/PC).

They said that the 6+1 shifter wasn't functioning correctly on all current racing games so there is not automatic support for the 6+1 shifter on current racing titles (but I suppose the game could add support with a title update is they cared to *looks at Turn 10* lol). However, they said that all future titles will support the 6+1 shifter. Apparently they are working closely with Simbin to have full compatibility with Race Pro:
"of course Simbin is very interested in this wheel but the supüport will not be from the start. It will come with a DLC which should be available at the time we ship the wheel. " -Thomas

[KYLB0T]

I have the ms wheel, and I would consider myself fast with it in Forza. I was in the top 10 in the R4 class.

I cant use the controller very well at all.

[Brako_UK]

There was an article in a gaming magazine which said the ms wheel felt really good for Race pro and even more surprised that joypad was still very usuable.So for those that really want to make Race pro a really good racing experience,atleast now it seem's you can use the joypad untill you have some spare coin for a wheel

[HybridTheory]

Do you guys think the Logitech Drive FX is a good wheel for this game?

[Brako_UK]

If thats the wheel you have and if the rumours about the demo being released before christmas are true,then the best thing to do is wait for the demo and try your wheel on it.If it turns out that it does'nt feel right then hopefully you have enough time to save money to trade it towards a better wheel.

[nagge]

Do you guys think the Logitech Drive FX is a good wheel for this game?

If you haven't already gotten the wheel I'd get the wireless instead because it has full force feedback instead of just axial as the logitech.

[HybridTheory]

I already have te wheel. I hope there is gonna be a demo very soon then i can check it out.

[PerfectStrategy]

Yea, well you guys go ahead and play with your little sissy wheels. I will play with my ultimate Fanatec wheel; with force feedback, clutch, 6+1 shifter, 900 degree maximum adjustable turning radius, etc. tonguegre


We'll see who has more enjoyment with his wheel. :bravo::bravo:

[nagge]

Ok, see you in march then ;)
Or later?
Have you decided on what pedals you're going with?

[PerfectStrategy]

Ok, see you in march then ;)
Actually I'll probably have it beginning of July based on the ship date and how long it will take to arrive to me. rolleyesa

But I still have my MS wheel, although I am actually much better with the controller. My record is sound:

Forza Motorsport 2: 1000/1000
Project Gotham Racing 3: 1000/1000
Project Gotham Racing 4: 1215/1250
GRID: 1100/1100
DIRT: 1000/1000
lol
So it doesn't matter what input method, my racing skills are still there mdr1
The Fanatec wheel will just take things to a whole new level. I will be like an actual race driver. I will be good and practiced for when I am expecting that my grandfather will buy me a Viper ACR in real life. :respect: /wishful thinking

[PerfectStrategy]

Ok, see you in march then ;)
Or later?
Have you decided on what pedals you're going with?
I think I am going to go with the standard porsche pedals. But I showed my cousin the pictures of the clubsport pedals and he really wants me to get those. I could always buy them separately if I really like the wheel though and want the better pedals down the road.

They certainly look 10x better and more serious than the standards. But I'm not necessarily trying to convince anyone of how awesome my setup is.

http://www.fanatec.de/webshop/new_usa/images/PWTS_pedals_02.jpg

vs

http://www.fanatec.de/webshop/new_usa/images/clubsport_pedals_USB_00.jpg

[Brako_UK]

I wonder how much slower having a clutch will be when compared to the normal 2 pedal system?.For that ultimate racing experience i would go with the clutch everytime just for the fun factor of it all.

they are only making 10,000 i heard and there based in germany,so it would be a pain in the neck if they arrived dodgy

[PerfectStrategy]

I wonder how much slower having a clutch will be when compared to the normal 2 pedal system?.For that ultimate racing experience i would go with the clutch everytime just for the fun factor of it all.

they are only making 10,000 i heard and there based in germany,so it would be a pain in the neck if they arrived dodgy
Why would they arrive dodgy? All of Fanatec's "products are created by fine Germaneering™" (their words, not mine). And being that they are all hand-tested and "Each wheel comes with an laser engraved chassis number plate which certifies the authenticity of the wheel".

I would probably also use the clutch for fun and practice, but maybe the paddle shifts if I was really trying to race fast. Although if Race Pro is very realistic then using the clutch (well) should afford you better performance than automatic transmission.

[Brako_UK]

I was'nt talking about automatic matey,does'nt the ms wheel only have a break and accel pedal and flappy padels?so even in manual you dont have to use a clutch to change gear,which i imagine would be faster than the pedal set with a clutch.

[PerfectStrategy]

I was'nt talking about automatic matey,does'nt the ms wheel only have a break and accel pedal and flappy padels?so even in manual you dont have to use a clutch to change gear,which i imagine would be faster than the pedal set with a clutch.
No clutch on the MS pedals. But you don't have to use the clutch. You can use the 6+1 shifter, sequential shifter, or the paddles. Paddle shifters never have a clutch of course.

But the speed and ability of shifting methods is all up to Simbin. In real life you should be able to go as fast with a clutch as with a semi-automatic trans. The current world record for production cars on Nordschleife is held by the 2009 Viper ACR. That car uses a manual transmission, and it has beaten the Ferrari FXX for example which uses paddle shifters. Entirely different cars, yes, but a manual transmission should hold up to any semi-automatic I think, so long as the driver is skilled.

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

the game needs to have a clutch function too... using the clutch should be the same in my view as using the wheel, you get more kudos for it, but it won't make you any faster...

[PerfectStrategy]

the game needs to have a clutch function too... using the clutch should be the same in my view as using the wheel, you get more kudos for it, but it won't make you any faster...
Fanatec and Simbin are working together for full compatibility with the wheel supposedly. So it would have a fully functioning clutch system with sequential and 6+1 shifter.

[nagge]

But the speed and ability of shifting methods is all up to Simbin. In real life you should be able to go as fast with a clutch as with a semi-automatic trans. The current world record for production cars on Nordschleife is held by the 2009 Viper ACR. That car uses a manual transmission, and it has beaten the Ferrari FXX for example which uses paddle shifters. Entirely different cars, yes, but a manual transmission should hold up to any semi-automatic I think, so long as the driver is skilled.

Sorry but there is no way you can manually shift as fast a semi automatic in say a F1 car or even a F430 for that instance.
The viper with a semi automatic would be fun to see, but since it's american they probably put a 4speed automatic in it ;)

[PerfectStrategy]

Sorry but there is no way you can manually shift as fast a semi automatic in say a F1 car or even a F430 for that instance.
F1 is a very different class. Due to how high the engines rev and the type of transmission they need for those vehicles they probably need to use paddle shifters. Also I think with how small and tight the cockpit is in those vehicles there is no room for a shifter column. The turns are also so tight and fast they probably need both hands on the wheel at all times.

But for supercars all the evidence I have seen is that manual trans is just as fast and actually preferred by many drivers. The Lamborghini's and Ferrari's with semi-auto/e-gear still get beat by Viper's and Corvette's with manual transmissions. So how is that the case if semi-automatic is better?

[nagge]

F1 is a very different class. Due to how high the engines rev and the type of transmission they need for those vehicles they probably need to use paddle shifters.

But for supercars all the evidence I have seen is that manual trans is just as fast and actually preferred by many drivers. The Lamborghini's and Ferrari's with semi-auto/e-gear still get beat by Viper's and Corvette's with manual transmissions. So how is that the case if semi-automatic is better?

You cant compare different cars with different transmissions to each other :p
The fact is, any car with a decent semi automatic, such as the F430 or the BMW M3 DKG will beat their manual versions. Simply due to the fact that more time is spent accelerating.

[PerfectStrategy]

Sorry but there is no way you can manually shift as fast a semi automatic in say a F1 car or even a F430 for that instance.
The viper with a semi automatic would be fun to see, but since it's american they probably put a 4speed automatic in it ;)
No, it has a 6 speed manual. If you want to start jokes about American cars I can refute those all day.

"The engine drives through a smaller dual plate clutch that reduces rotating inertia by 18 percent and the latest iteration of the Tremec T6060 six-speed that includes triple-cone synchros on first and second, and 10-percent-wider gears to manage the torque. The new GKN ViscoLok diff features its own sump to quicker generate the hydraulic pressure needed to actuate the limited-slip clutches faster, yet more progressively and with greater precision."

Source:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0803_2009_dodge_viper_acr/index.html

[nagge]

No, it has a 6 speed manual. If you want to start jokes about American cars I can refute those all day.

"The engine drives through a smaller dual plate clutch that reduces rotating inertia by 18 percent and the latest iteration of the Tremec T6060 six-speed that includes triple-cone synchros on first and second, and 10-percent-wider gears to manage the torque. The new GKN ViscoLok diff features its own sump to quicker generate the hydraulic pressure needed to actuate the limited-slip clutches faster, yet more progressively and with greater precision."

Source:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0803_2009_dodge_viper_acr/index.html

I didnt mention what was in it at the moment, just that if the decided to put a semi automatic they'd probably dump in a 4speed auto. It's a joke, get it? :salut2:

[PerfectStrategy]

You cant compare different cars with different transmissions to each other :p
The fact is, any car with a decent semi automatic, such as the F430 or the BMW M3 DKG will beat their manual versions. Simply due to the fact that more time is spent accelerating.
I would argue that you shouldn't compare the same car with different transmissions. The car needs to be designed from the ground up for a manual transmission to do it well.

The Hennessey Viper 1000TT currently holds the world record for acceleration on the standing mile. That was using a manual transmission. If semi-auto was really faster I don't see why they wouldn't have a semi-auto car with the world record.

[PzR_Tak]

Really can't see the point of arguing over this.

[PerfectStrategy]

I didnt mention what was in it at the moment, just that if the decided to put a semi automatic they'd probably dump in a 4speed auto. It's a joke, get it? :salut2:
I don't get it. Haven't you heard of the Saleen S7 Twin Turbo?

http://www.saleen.com/saleen_s7_performance.htm

It beats the euro supercars on a V8. The Corvette ZR1 holds the #2 Nordschleife time with a supercharged V8, the Viper ACR the #1 with a V10.

Ford GT, Panoz Esperante, Tesla Roadster, Mosler MT900, etc.

Everyone jokes about American supercars when actually they are the best in the world on both performance and cost. I just find it funny.

[nagge]

I would argue that you shouldn't compare the same car with different transmissions. The car needs to be designed from the ground up for a manual transmission to do it well.

The Hennessey Viper 1000TT currently holds the world record for acceleration on the standing mile. That was using a manual transmission. If semi-auto was really faster I don't see why they wouldn't have a semi-auto car with the world record.

What, designed for the transmission? In acceleration all that counts is shifting time. There is no point comparing two cars which differ in every component to each other, no conclusions can be drawn.

Probably because they couldn't make one that held up.

Joking about american cars is a left over from the past, american cars has for the past few years proven to beat porsche as well as other european brands in our own back yard, still, joking about american cars is a habit hard to forget ;)

PzR_Tak: It's a discussion :)

[VVV_Hellbr1ng3r]

Im pretty sure something beat the 1000TT

[PzR_Tak]

PzR_Tak: It's a discussion :)

Trust me, I know what a discussion is. General tone of some of the comments to me don't sound like discussion, however.

[AZT_Backfire]

I'll be using the pad when i first get the game, then possibly switch to the wheel when im confident of what the physics are like. Depends really, I'll see what happens...

[VVV_Hellbr1ng3r]

Havent got proper space for my wheel, Its on of those that fastens to your lap....and I dont think I should spoil this game for that

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

Trust me, I know what a discussion is. General tone of some of the comments to me don't sound like discussion, however.

now there's an argument about having an argument ;D

[PerfectStrategy]

Im pretty sure something beat the 1000TT
The F-22 Raptor, perhaps? Cause there ain't no car faster than a Viper.

[PzR_Tak]

now there's an argument about having an argument ;D

Ah, some comedy in the situation!

[AZT_Backfire]

nice monk :P

[PerfectStrategy]

Ah, some comedy in the situation!
There was already if you read between the lines. Nagge made a joke about american cars being bad. I made a joke about american cars being good. In actuality they are close to mediocre but a bit on the bad side.


Slightly ontopic: Who is buying the Fanatec wheel besides me? Cmon!

[PzR_Tak]

I was going to say at least the Viper is good at what it does in a straight line. Now all they've got to figure out is how to get it to take corners!

[AZT_Backfire]

I dont think i will buy the fanatec, I may well just stick with the microsoft wheel, noobish though it is, it will do me...

if i had the cash i would go with the fanatec, but i cant :'(

[PerfectStrategy]

I was going to say at least the Viper is good at what it does in a straight line. Now all they've got to figure out is how to get it to take corners!
I thought Nurburgring had corners?

[PzR_Tak]

I thought Nurburgring had corners?

I hadn't noticed!

[PerfectStrategy]

I hadn't noticed!
:bravo:


10sur10

[VVV_Hellbr1ng3r]

Didnt the Nissan GT-R destroy the ACR?

[PzR_Tak]

Didnt the Nissan GT-R destroy the ACR?

Apparently they cheated. I seem to remember seeing that somewhere.

Race tyres (http://jalopnik.com/5056908/porsche-smells-rat-claims-nissan-cheating-on-gt+r-nurburgring-lap-times) apparently

Anyway, it's not that record, the ACR still holds it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

[PerfectStrategy]

Didnt the Nissan GT-R destroy the ACR?
Naw, the GTR started the whole competition. It set the record recently, beating out the old vipers, corvettes, lambos, ferraris, et al.

Then corvette got pissed and put out the new ZR1 and was able to beat the GTR.

Then members of the Viper club got pissed and they complained to SRT, then SRT sent out a couple ACR's to nurburgring and then they proceeded to beat both the GTR and ZR1.

Now Nissan is working on a V-spec GTR which is apparently hitting 7:23 right now (the ACR has 7:22) and they want to take the record back. I don't think they will beat the Viper though, SRT said their simulations show the Viper ACR can actually get down in the 7:10-7:20 range.

Edit: Yeah I forgot that there are now 3 other cars ahead of the ZR1. Evo got into the fight and they sent out those european supercars to try and take the record from the Viper.

[nagge]

The lap the viper did was very impressive, although the gearbox seemed a bit hard to work with ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inO-F5mbtKw

I think we're getting quite a bit away from Race Pro in this thread.

[Diablo_]

The Radical is the current champion at 6:55 and yes it's road legal. :nuts:

You would have to be mental!! (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtyZosuPNE&fmt=18)

[PerfectStrategy]

The lap the viper did was very impressive, although the gearbox seemed a bit hard to work with ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inO-F5mbtKw

I think we're getting quite a bit away from Race Pro in this thread.
I don't think the driver ever drove a Viper. He has been racing track-tuned cars, SEAT Leon specifically. Apparently SRT was not incredibly pleased with his performance, but they were just happy to take the record. Because he was running relatively slower laptimes and SRT kept insisting that the car could do sub 7:20.

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

1 second faster...

radical pwns at 26 seconds faster...

[PerfectStrategy]

Yea but where do its competitors stack up? The Ariel Atom 300 Supercharged? Caparo T1?

Haha, this is awesome (Caparo T1):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcEiC5uYNso

[mac_v2]

Car&Driver recentely run a series of track tests calling them "the 08 ligthning lap"

the ACR was a lot faster than the GT-R, but then you see!... the pricetag on the viper is almost twice as big as the nissan´s. It also uses lots of downforce and is basically track-ready; but of course... you can't do much else than showing off with it, its a "Garage-Diva"

The GT-R is a car you can use for personal use, go to the office, traveling, commuting, etc.

I'm not a big fan of nissan but this time, they have a winner.

[PerfectStrategy]

Car&Driver recentely run a series of track tests calling them "the 08 ligthning lap"

the ACR was a lot faster than the GT-R, but then you see!... the pricetag on the viper is almost twice as big as the nissan´s. It also uses lots of downforce and is basically track-ready; but of course... you can't do much else than showing off with it, its a "Garage-Diva"

The GT-R is a car you can use for personal use, go to the office, traveling, commuting, etc.

I'm not a big fan of nissan but this time, they have a winner.
I always hear this argument and just don't understand it. We are talking about supercars here. I drive a rusted-out old truck every day and I don't mind it at all. If I am driving a supercar I don't care if grandma can drive to the market in the same comfort as her Cadillac. If you can't handle the car then maybe you should be driving a corolla.

If you have such a nice expensive car you are either going to be driving it on the streets or not. If you choose to drive it on the streets then you are risking having it wrecked or damaged no matter what car it is.

And no it is not half the price. The ZR1 is like $95000 and ACR $100000. GT-R is about $86000 I think.

So I think the pricing is very fair, you get what you pay for. I think the ACR is a better value than the GT-R personally. For that extra money you get a faster car and it looks way better than the GT-R does.

[mac_v2]

well once again, my source is C&D

The ACR was 120000, the ZR-1 is around 95000 and the GT-R is 70000

Anyhow any of them are great cars, but you will see many more GT-R on the street than any of the other two.

[kennedy2125]

Guys, lets put this discussion about clutch and clutchless transmissions to bed eh?

Due to the current state of technological progress, clutchless gear changes will always result in a quicker gear change, however this does not mean they result in a 'quicker' car than a clutch gear transmission, for the simple fact that in a manual you have the ability to change instantly to the gear you want without having to go 'through' any other gears first.

All in all, speed is about more than just a gear change, its predominantly about skill level of the driver.

GT and Touring car championships across the world have been won in cars with manual transmission and automatic/sequential transmissions. Its about the Driver. Thats that.

[PerfectStrategy]

well once again, my source is C&D

The ACR was 120000, the ZR-1 is around 95000 and the GT-R is 70000

Anyhow any of them are great cars, but you will see many more GT-R on the street than any of the other two.
But a lot of people drive cars based partly on aesthetics. Surely I am not the only one that thinks the GT-R does not look as good? Don't get me wrong it looks fine, but not amazing like the ZR1 and especially ACR.


http://corvettezr1.info/wp-content/gallery/zr1-pictures/chevrolet-corvette-zr1-9.jpg

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/7539/images/4CorvetteZR1F34.jpg

http://www.importjap.com//wp-content/gallery/nissan-gt-r-official-pictures/nissan_gtr_official_side.jpg

http://www.autospies.com/images/users/carlover99/nissan-gt-r.jpg

http://inventorspot.com/files/images/ACR4.img_assist_custom.jpg

http://image.motortrend.com/f/10840143/112_0808_03z+dodge_viper_ACR+front_view.jpg


Doesn't the GT-R look a bit boxy and subtle by comparison?

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

yes but that's because it isn't a supercar, it's half the money and almost as fast!

[PerfectStrategy]

yes but that's because it isn't a supercar, it's half the money and almost as fast!
Since everyone is going on about this half the money thing I guess I have to disprove mac's information.

The Viper ACR:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/in_the_showroom/article4787927.ece

"Before you start thinking this is just another American straight-line missile with no cornering ability, think again. The ACR stands for American Club Racer, and Dodge takes that badge seriously."

^That quote was for Nagge. :p

"Particularly as, like Dodge, I’ve been saving the best until last: in the States the Viper SRT10 ACR costs just $98,110 (£54,900)."

So yea, $98,000, not bad.

The base Viper is $86,000.


The ZR1:
http://jalopnik.com/396344/2009-corvette-zr1-pricing-released-638-hp-for-103300

$103,000

The base Z06 is $74,000.


Now, as for the GT-R:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/sports_car_central/nissan_gt_r_price_gouging_car_news

It does have a $70,000 base price, but even Car and Driver admits you won't be able to get one for that price anytime soon. And I believe the GT-R they used at Nurburgring was not outfitted anywhere near $70,000. While I know the Viper ACR used on the track was the same thing you get from the factory, with the hardcore option (which does not cost extra). Something to think about...

Also, keep in mind that this car is indeed slower than the other two. The V-spec version is more comparable and that will cost more than the ACR and ZR1:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/nissan-gt-r-v-spec.html



mdr1 tonguegretonguegretonguegre mdr1

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

well it's still alot less ;D

[PerfectStrategy]

well it's still alot less ;D
No it isn't, did you read my whole post? :bravo:

A Civic is a lot less too. So buy the Civic.

[nagge]

"Before you start thinking this is just another American straight-line missile with no cornering ability, think again. The ACR stands for American Club Racer, and Dodge takes that badge seriously."

^That quote was for Nagge. :p

Ouch, I'm offended :laugh:
Altough I didn't question the ACR's cornering capability.

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

yes but the base price is alot less than the other base prices... and most of the cars had tweaks like suspension and downforce tweaks anyway...

[Aizen93]

Isn't Mine's going to tune the GT-R ?

[AZT_Mad_Monk]

that would be cool ;D

anyway, back on topic. What's the best wheel with a clutch pedal for the Xbox 360? are there any out already?

[nagge]

What's the best wheel with a clutch pedal for the Xbox 360? are there any out already?

Fanatec is the only one thats compatible with the 360, although if you order now you wont get it until June :/

[jumper5836]

I decided to take the plunge and order the serious wheel because I want to use a normal shifter so I learn manual trans better and figure I won't need to worry about another wheel after this.

I did some research on this wheel and it seems to be very serious. They have sent out test wheels to users and some of them have even posted youtube videos.

I currently have the MS wheel which I will probably give away after I get this one. This wheel is supposed to have the full compatibility with games that the MS wheel offers. And also supposedly Fanatec are working with Simbin to support this wheel fully in Race Pro.

Here is the wheel:
http://www.fanatec.de/html/index.php?id=250&lang=en

I ordered the Pure edition because this way I save some money. I don't want the dongle for PS3/PC compatibility so that saves me $30. You can also use existing pedals from the MS wheel if you want to save another $50, but I really want the clutch pedal. Or you could also just use the paddle shifters and skip on the normal shifters, but I think I want the other shifters. So I ordered the Pure wheel + Shifter set + Basic pedals. The Clubsport pedals look ridiculously amazing, but that is a lot more money.

edit: Apparently it is also compatible with G25 pedals. I see those have a clutch pedal also.

I also ordered mine in Nov. I can't wait for it to come in March. I got the Clubsport edition.
I also am a fan of GTR2 and just found out that this is for the 360. This is going to be a great year!

I use the 360 wheel now and it is darn good for $99.

[PerfectStrategy]

Ouch, I'm offended :laugh:
Altough I didn't question the ACR's cornering capability.

yes but the base price is alot less than the other base prices... and most of the cars had tweaks like suspension and downforce tweaks anyway...

I also ordered mine in Nov. I can't wait for it to come in March. I got the Clubsport edition.
I also am a fan of GTR2 and just found out that this is for the 360. This is going to be a great year!

I use the 360 wheel now and it is darn good for $99.
I bought the MS wheel when it was $125 or so. Definitely a good wheel for the price, it is now $89.99 on Amazon. :bravo:

Yeah you must be dying waiting until March for the Fanatec, and having paid the lowest price. Try paying a higher price and waiting until July! eekblue: I will gladly trade spots with you. :o

[Brako_UK]

Does anyone think the Ms wheel is worth £60 and worth it in the long run?.Does it actually make racing games feel that more realistic or is it too senstitive?.

[SPEEDEM0N]

Hi guys i cant wait for this game to come out on the 360 and im sure simbin will deliver.

Just wondered how many of you will actually use a wheel and what sort of setups you have. i know the 360 wheel has had good reviews but compared to say the logitech G25 or microsoft sideiwinder ff im not sure wether to invest or wait and see whats in the pipeline ?

I played GTR on a sidewinder and it was awesome. I know some of the setups on pc's can be out of this world when it comes to simulations.

If simbin pull this off on the 360 and its as good as a pc sim racer then i would consider saving up and forking out for a decent setup.

This looks great ..

http://www.gameracer.co.uk/

but what wheel would be best ? and would i need a wheel to be competitive online?

Some of the fastest racers on the 360 use joypads what do you think ?

thanks

Paul

Back on topic...

Wheel or pad... What are you objectives when racing a simulator..?

Do you want immersion & realism ? Go for the wheel. The MS wireless is a great deal at 99$. I personally went & ordered the Porsche 911 Turbo S clubsport edition wheel from Fanatec to get to use the clutch & stickshift (my personal objective is to get cheap "virtual" track time during winter to better my real life Time Attack & AutoX skills).

Also, if you really want to experience a sim with a steering wheel, you'll definitely need a cockpit, as the steering inputs & feedback are nowhere near constant with the wheel on your lap. The Playseat Evolution is a good basic setup, as it's just sturdy enough for the MS Wireless whel feedback (confort during long stints is an issue though). If you want to go all out & buy the high end 911 Turbo S from Fanatec, I highly recommend you get a slightly more expensive (& more confortable) Gameracer cockpit or the high end (if you can afford it) Rennsport Cockpit from Fanatec, as the force feedback & vibration generated by the 911 Turbo S wheel will flex the Playseat evo to the point where it will disturb you steering inputs.


If your objective is to be fast & competitive, go for the pad.

As far as fast times go, from personal experience, the pad is almost always faster, as throttle & brake inputs (at the limit) are always easier to modulate via the index fingers, as opposed to the feet. Feedback from the pedals beeing extremely limited on the available wheels for the 360 make driving with a pad (& it's associated physics & input damping) easier & therefore faster. (The pedal feedback issue might change with the Fanatec 911 Turbo S Clubsport Edition). A pad is obviously always cheaper than a wheel & cockpit setup... :noooo:

But then again, racing on a simulator with a pad won't help you as much in getting faster in a real racecar. :)

It all depends on your personal objectives.

My 2 cents.

[Brako_UK]

Personally i would like a steering wheel but because i do a lot,well some,real life racing i am putting myself off getting the wheel.Yes it would be nice to have a more realistic approach to a racing game with a wheel etc but really it's just a video game and in no way does it come close to real racing.

What i am getting at is that by buying the wheel and feeling let down by the experience of compairing it to real life experience,i might just stick to the joypad as i really enjoy video games and dont want the racing video games to be ruined from real life experience.

PS.A web team is working on a very good and very detailed website for a certain real life racing league which my friend is a big part of.Once its up and running i will post details about it as i am sure a lot of you racing fans will enjoy it.