race numbers? [Archive] - Forums Atari Europe

Comet302

03-01-2009, 13:19

well.. with a new racing season almost upon us... i have a few big questions...

can we choose our own race number for our cars for online play???

in my opinion this is a must for the online play to survive.. how else do you distinguish between 12 of the same cars???..

they can't all be the same number... or are we stuck like FM2 in all the race class cars?

is there even going to be varying colour schemes...

heck, can we even change the graphics/sponsors? it would be nice to be able to use some sort of team colours at least.....

sorry, i had to ask these... maybe i have missed it... but,i haven't seen anyone else ask these things...

PzR_Tak

03-01-2009, 13:25

Personally, I would assume not. There are different liveries in Race 07, but you cannot alter them, unless you skin them yourself, which on the 360 won't be possible. It's just going to be whoever's car, and you're driving in it.

Admittedly, there are quite a few different liveries for each car (in general) but customisablility is something Simbin didn't seem to be too bothered about. "It's a racing game"

Comet302

03-01-2009, 13:37

hmmmm thats too bad.... the least they could do is allow us to change to our own race number for online multiplayer....

Brako_UK

03-01-2009, 13:39

I dont think you will be able to change the livery of the car as they are real life replica based but it would only make sense to allow the user to have there own race number.

Comet302

03-01-2009, 14:17

yeah i just read an article here (http://www.gamestracker.com/int/gopreview.asp?idu=12685481)...

and it clearly states on page 2 that: "Parts tuning and livery customization would make RACE Pro a completely different game to the one we had in mind, so it was decided very early on in the game’s concept phase that we would not feature either. "

I hope somebody at Simbin sees this and realizes that we need custom numbers, that's all....

it will be crazy online yelling out.. "hey #12 on my right that other #12 just cut me off , i am sorry i spun you out.... the other #12 just hit my back bumper... i know we are all red.. but he had a scratch mark on the left side, on top of his #12!!!" as you can see.... this could go on forever... lol...

nagge

03-01-2009, 14:20

in my opinion this is a must for the online play to survive.. how else do you distinguish between 12 of the same cars???

What? I think you're taking it a bit far, race results will still display gamertags so what's the fuzz? On the track I'm sure gamertags will be shown one way or another. Never experience any problems with this racing online in either GTR or GTL.

Comet302

03-01-2009, 14:24

just reading over things at IFCA.... it says u need a number..... that's all..... :)

i want to be ready with Race Pro once it comes out.....

Brako_UK

03-01-2009, 14:40

I dont think it will let you pick the same race paint replica with any hope Comet,it will either lock a paint once its been picked or perhaps choose random liveries for each car.

It's unfortunate you cant pick a number though,especially for user created tournaments such as the IFCA.

kalniel

03-01-2009, 16:58

The cars will all have different numbers I'm sure, so there's no need to worry about distinguishing between them.

nagge

03-01-2009, 17:03

The cars will all have different numbers I'm sure, so there's no need to worry about distinguishing between them.

Yes of course, but i think the OP wanted to set his own number, as in for instance racing leagues where numbers are issued.

350 different cars of 48 models gives ~7 liveries on average for each car.

RossiIRL

03-01-2009, 20:19

nagge

03-01-2009, 20:23

I think it could be the first to pick the livery at the start of session gets it for the session and then everybody else has to choose a different livery, what I just said might be stupid but it could happen

I see that as very unlikely, so if there is say 10 liveries for the BMW 320Si and everyone wants to drive one in say a BMW-series you think that wouldn't be possible?

If it were like that I'd say they've made a huge mistake.

RossiIRL

03-01-2009, 21:16

nagge

03-01-2009, 22:04

I'm just curious

Me too, I'm just thinking out loud :)
It would be a shame though if that were the case, I remember the OXM review saying something about pointless limitations on race settings, hopefully it isnt something this stupid :mefiant:
Well within 27d we will know for sure as the demo (hopefully) arrives.

PzR_Tak

03-01-2009, 22:42

Me too, I'm just thinking out loud :)
It would be a shame though if that were the case, I remember the OXM review saying something about pointless limitations on race settings, hopefully it isnt something this stupid :mefiant:
Well within 27d we will know for sure as the demo (hopefully) arrives.

I think that was referring to the difference between medium and hard difficulty, where there is no middle ground, and you can't alter the settings.

nagge

03-01-2009, 22:45

I think that was referring to the difference between medium and hard difficulty, where there is no middle ground, and you can't alter the settings.

Yes, lets hope that's what they were referring to. Makes more sense really.

Comet302

04-01-2009, 01:59

I see that as very unlikely, so if there is say 10 liveries for the BMW 320Si and everyone wants to drive one in say a BMW-series you think that wouldn't be possible?

If it were like that I'd say they've made a huge mistake.

well.. if there were, say, 12 different liveries for the same car, per class, that might work ok.... but i highly doubt they have done that.... :laugh:

but, yes, all I would like to see is the ability to put your own number on the car... that's it...

everything i read out there points at a big NO :nono:..... you get what you get and that's it.... i think this may hurt the game more than anyone thinks... IMO..

PzR_Tak

04-01-2009, 02:11

well.. if there were, say, 12 different liveries for the same car, per class, that might work ok.... but i highly doubt they have done that.... :laugh:

but, yes, all I would like to see is the ability to put your own number on the car... that's it...

everything i read out there points at a big NO :nono:..... you get what you get and that's it.... i think this may hurt the game more than anyone thinks... IMO..

I'll say it now... There won't be 12 liveries per car per class, brilliant though that would be. Even if there were, you wouldn't be able to keep a specific number throughout all races/race meetings due to different series having different numbers. Bear in mind Simbin are trying to get this as close to the real thing as possible, so If there isn't something in real life, you are unlikely to find it in Race Pro.

In terms of changable numbers, this is a programming thing that will need to have been planned from quite an early stage, or they would have to have thousands of different liveries for all the cars. Programming wise, a panel on the car that can be changed. Personally I feel they will have replicated (copied?) the liveries from the Race07 game, maybe tidied them up a bit for HD, and stuck them in. With it being Simbin's own engine (Lizard) they are likely to be using File Formats that they are used to, then upgrading what they already have.

Comet302

04-01-2009, 02:29

I'll say it now... There won't be 12 liveries per car per class, brilliant though that would be. Even if there were, you wouldn't be able to keep a specific number throughout all races/race meetings due to different series having different numbers. Bear in mind Simbin are trying to get this as close to the real thing as possible, so If there isn't something in real life, you are unlikely to find it in Race Pro.

In terms of changable numbers, this is a programming thing that will need to have been planned from quite an early stage, or they would have to have thousands of different liveries for all the cars. Programming wise, a panel on the car that can be changed. Personally I feel they will have replicated (copied?) the liveries from the Race07 game, maybe tidied them up a bit for HD, and stuck them in. With it being Simbin's own engine (Lizard) they are likely to be using File Formats that they are used to, then upgrading what they already have.

I 100% agree with you on this.... I think this is exactly how they have made the game... real cars, real numbers, from real drivers... i know that to be able to change #'s would take a lot of work... it is something that i justed wished for.... :nuts:

how many cars does each team have in each class in the real WTCC??.. i am not sure...

i did find this... http://www.spotterguides.com/content/view/16/35/ (http://www.spotterguides.com/content/view/16/35/)

but i am not sure if these are some of the cars in Race Pro or not.... out in western canada, i don't get to see very much of the WTCC....if at all...

PzR_Tak

04-01-2009, 02:34

I 100% agree with you on this.... I think this is exactly how they have made the game... real cars, real numbers, from real drivers... i know that to be able to change #'s would take a lot of work... it is something that i justed wished for.... :nuts:

how many cars does each team have in each class in the real WTCC??.. i am not sure...

i did find this... http://www.spotterguides.com/content/view/16/35/ (http://www.spotterguides.com/content/view/16/35/)

but i am not sure if these are some of the cars in Race Pro or not.... out in western canada, i don't get to see very much of the WTCC....if at all...

Well, it just so happens that I am a collector of website references and general knowledge (joking) but, here you go:

http://www.race-game.org/race07/game/wtcc2007.htm

Doesn't show all of the liveries, but it does give the general number of each model of car.

And while you are there, on the right hand side there is also a handy other championships guide. (These are all what I expect to find within Race Pro)

edit: here's a thing from GTR Evolution, doesn't give number of liveries but lists the cars in classes.

http://www.gtr-evolution.com/carstrack.htm

Comet302

04-01-2009, 02:36

oh yeah!... that's exactly what I was looking for... thanks.. now i can go read up on everything.... at least it gives me something to do while we wait... LOL!!!

PzR_Tak

04-01-2009, 02:41

Bear in mind with the GTR Evo bit, that not all of those tracks are there, and that the cars apart from GT ones are just what is in Race 07. Also bear in mind that nothing of what I've put is official, nor confirmed per se, it's just mostly assumed. Some is known, but exacts are not.

Tak

Comet302

04-01-2009, 02:44

k... i hear ya.. but atleast it gives me an idea of what to hopefully expect... ;-)

oh, i wish we could download the template skins and make our own!.. LOL...

PzR_Tak

04-01-2009, 02:46

k... i hear ya.. but atleast it gives me an idea of what to hopefully expect... ;-)

oh, i wish we could download the template skins and make our own!.. LOL...

Get Race 07 and GTR Evolution then! /jk

Seriously, I know what you mean, and I want the same, but with all the will in the world, it's not going to happen.

Don't forget that there will also be DLC of which both cars and tracks are rumoured, and who knows, Skins?

Comet302

04-01-2009, 02:48

OMG!!!.. i just watched the RACE 07 preview (http://www.race-game.org/race07/download/videos.htm)...

all i gotta say is... WOW!!!!!!!!....

PzR_Tak

04-01-2009, 02:52

Comet302

04-01-2009, 02:54

Get Race 07 and GTR Evolution then! /jk

Seriously, I know what you mean, and I want the same, but with all the will in the world, it's not going to happen.

Don't forget that there will also be DLC of which both cars and tracks are rumoured, and who knows, Skins?

which one do more people play online??... I have gone away from PC racing due to, IMO, too many "problems with racers".... but, wow, I might have to find a way of getting back to it.... but, maybe not since Race Pro will be here soon....

wow, they must realize how much pressure is on them to make this up to the level of Race 07 and GTR, if not higher..... it would make a lot of people crazy!! :nuts:

PzR_Tak

04-01-2009, 03:00

which one do more people play online??... I have gone away from PC racing due to, IMO, too many "problems with racers".... but, wow, I might have to find a way of getting back to it.... but, maybe not since Race Pro will be here soon....

wow, they must realize how much pressure is on them to make this up to the level of Race 07 and GTR, if not higher..... it would make a lot of people crazy!! :nuts:

I don't have evo, only got Race 07, and I'm playing that mostly due to Race Pro. People still race online in 07, and it is good fun. I'd wait if I were you, though, as graphically Race Pro will blow it out of the water. Also, it's only 6 weeks. The actual game itself we will have to wait and see exactly how much of Race 07 has been transposed, the gamekult preview said that the full rules of WTCC are not in Race Pro, whereas they are in 07.

There will almost undoubtedly be some dumbing down for the console audience, but hopefully it is not too much. To be honest my hope is that any dumbing down is optional, and everything can be turned back on, but maybe I hope too much!

Comet302

04-01-2009, 03:09

i was shocked to see that in one of those articles that they said that the full rules are not in Race Pro.... i thought this was going to be as close to the "real thing" as possible with a console?...

i guess we will have to wait and see - maybe that's why it's so quiet out there from Simbin... they are working so much to get it just right... no time to talk...

but, with no customization, not even #'s... i think this game will not be as popular as the other PC series, which to me, looks amazing!

nagge

04-01-2009, 09:15

everything i read out there points at a big NO :nono:..... you get what you get and that's it.... i think this may hurt the game more than anyone thinks... IMO..

I dont think it will hurt the game in even the slightest way to be honest, I cant see any problems coming from this.

I'm just curious in what way you see this hurting the game? You dont see drivers IRL shouting out to each other "Move god dammit #355 I'm coming on the inside!" ;)

kalniel

04-01-2009, 12:42

It is that good. BUT, that video all seemed a little sped up to me. Everything was running at about 1 and a half times the speed I would expect, possibly nearer 2 times, but not quite.

That is the sort of racing that we are hoping for. OH YES!

edit: only some bits of it. The in-car looked right, but some of the external cam shots looked a little fast.

Nope, nothing is sped up there at all. Sometimes it looks fast just because the framerate is high, othertimes the camera is tracking the cars movement exactly, whereas in real life cameras covering races don't move as much.

which one do more people play online??...
Both - the two are seamless because GTR:Evo includes the full version of Race 07 - if you just have Race 07 then you can only race in classes and tracks included in Race 07, but you can race against people who have GTR:Evo no problem.

But obviously Evo is the one to get because it includes Race07. And it utterly rocks! Loads of people are still playing online.

Comet302

04-01-2009, 12:46

I dont think it will hurt the game in even the slightest way to be honest, I cant see any problems coming from this.

I'm just curious in what way you see this hurting the game? You dont see drivers IRL shouting out to each other "Move god dammit #355 I'm coming on the inside!" ;)

the game will be fine.. absolutely fine... it won't hurt offline play... or much of online, unless you are really into racing, which I am....

it's just for the IFCA series - or any other race series for that matter..... it makes it easier to see who is who while racing and especially in replays... maybe having the gamertag overhead is fine (if that is even one of the options in RP).. I am just used to being able to have my number on the cars I drive...

I see in RACE 07 you can do all this... i know this is a console game, and that was PC, so they don't want to give us all the freedom to make our cars truly ours... oh wait, we could do that in another console racing game... hmmm

I just don't see why they couldn't make that into this game... it's elsewhere, and those people that are really into that "other game" won't really be too impressed if they can't continue to the next level with Race Pro....

Could you imagine if they made it possible to actually use something like photoshop to integrate amazing artwork into this new and exciting game from simple templates that already exist??... now that would blow people away!!!.... and there would be a huge following if that was remotely possible... once again, IMO....

sorry, just giving my 2 cents on this issue.... i realize that my dream won't come true.... we race what they give us... that's it.. i know...

kalniel

04-01-2009, 12:49

I see in RACE 07 you can do all this... i know this is a console game, and that was PC, so they don't want to give us all the freedom to make our cars truly ours... oh wait, we could do that in another console racing game... hmmm

Actually you can't do this in Race 07 - you can adjust things as much as you like for offline play, but from what I remember you can't mod the online game, which makes sense if they want to rule out offensive content and possible cheats.

PzR_Tak

04-01-2009, 12:52

Nope, nothing is sped up there at all. Sometimes it looks fast just because the framerate is high, othertimes the camera is tracking the cars movement exactly, whereas in real life cameras covering races don't move as much.

Fair enough, my PC isn't the best so that probably explains it. Game still rocks though!

Comet302

04-01-2009, 12:57

Actually you can't do this in Race 07 - you can adjust things as much as you like for offline play, but from what I remember you can't mod the online game, which makes sense if they want to rule out offensive content and possible cheats.

from what i read here:
http://www.race-game.org/race07/download/skintemplates.htm

it even says:
"A Custom Skin will be your self-made car livery which you can use on any car model currently present in Race 07. Within the game you can easily select your own car just like the built in cars. If you share your customized skins with your friends online they will all be able to see and use your skin in the game."

from that i gathered that it's possible.... i have not played RACE 07, so i personally don't know...

I was just wondering how it seems so easy in FM2 to have custom liveries... and yet nobody wants to follow that idea....

nagge

04-01-2009, 12:58

the game will be fine.. absolutely fine... it won't hurt offline play... or much of online, unless you are really into racing, which I am....

it's just for the IFCA series - or any other race series for that matter..... it makes it easier to see who is who while racing and especially in replays... maybe having the gamertag overhead is fine (if that is even one of the options in RP).. I am just used to being able to have my number on the cars I drive...

I see in RACE 07 you can do all this... i know this is a console game, and that was PC, so they don't want to give us all the freedom to make our cars truly ours... oh wait, we could do that in another console racing game... hmmm

I just don't see why they couldn't make that into this game... it's elsewhere, and those people that are really into that "other game" won't really be too impressed if they can't continue to the next level with Race Pro....

Could you imagine if they made it possible to actually use something like photoshop to integrate amazing artwork into this new and exciting game from simple templates that already exist??... now that would blow people away!!!.... and there would be a huge following if that was remotely possible... once again, IMO....

sorry, just giving my 2 cents on this issue.... i realize that my dream won't come true.... we race what they give us... that's it.. i know...

Gamertags overhead I think will be in the game, it is in Race07 so it should also be in Race Pro, otherwise I can agree that distinguishing between cars in replays will be hard. But as far as the actual race goes I dont see this as a problem, as I said they do fine without communication between cars IRL so we should be able to do the same on Live ;)

As far as customization goes you couldn't paint R-class cars i Forza, and I'm glad they left if out of this game because that's not what racing is about and that's all this game is about.

Just giving my slightly more than 2 cents on the matter :bravo:

(It's a pitty that we have to reside to discussing these hypothetical questions while waiting for the demo :laugh: )

PzR_Tak

04-01-2009, 13:02

Agreed Nagge, but that's just how it goes.

On another note PEGI have rated the game 3+, whereas the box art currently shows 7+ so the game must be going somewhere.

http://www.pegi.info/en/index/global_id/505/?searchString=race+pro

Tentative link I know, but that's a number change on the boxes livery!

kalniel

04-01-2009, 13:03

from what i read here:
http://www.race-game.org/race07/download/skintemplates.htm

it even says:
"A Custom Skin will be your self-made car livery which you can use on any car model currently present in Race 07. Within the game you can easily select your own car just like the built in cars. If you share your customized skins with your friends online they will all be able to see and use your skin in the game."

from that i gathered that it's possible.... i have not played RACE 07, so i personally don't know...

It's the same with most games - if you alter the files you can change the skins, so you have to share those altered files with your friends so that they can see the changes - otherwise they just see the livery that you overwrote. I guess they do allow mods to certain files for online play then - I could never work out which ones they did :p

If there's a way to overwrite specific files on the X360 game install then you could probably do exactly the same thing.

Comet302

04-01-2009, 13:06

well.. waiting is what we are all doing... lol.. heck, i am on vacation in south korea right now... 17 hours ahaed of my normal time... so i am having some xbox360 withdrawl syndrome... lol.. i am glad i found this site to have something to do while we all wait for this new and exciting game to come out.. as well as this demo that we all want to get our hands on as well.. lol... :)

what else can we discuss?.. LOL!!!.....

Agreed Nagge, but that's just how it goes.

On another note PEGI have rated the game 3+, whereas the box art currently shows 7+ so the game must be going somewhere.

http://www.pegi.info/en/index/global_id/505/?searchString=race+pro

Tentative link I know, but that's a number change on the boxes livery!

hehe!... i knew they would change a number somewhere!.... mdr1

nagge

04-01-2009, 13:10

Comet302

04-01-2009, 13:25

HEHE.... it's big news!... woohoo!!...

i just watched some more of the videos... i noticed that in production car class that NOBODY has numbers... lol.... what do we do now???... :)

nagge

04-01-2009, 13:36

HEHE.... it's big news!... woohoo!!...

i just watched some more of the videos... i noticed that in production car class that NOBODY has numbers... lol.... what do we do now???... :)

One driver has to loose his rear bumper, one has to smash up the right side of the car, one has to smash up the left rear light etc. Then the race can start and we can differentiate between the drivers lightbulb

Comet302

04-01-2009, 13:46

One driver has to loose his rear bumper, one has to smash up the right side of the car, one has to smash up the left rear light etc. Then the race can start and we can differentiate between the drivers lightbulb

hehe.. have we raced together before?.. LOL... :nuts:

that sounds like the typical race for me.... and that's just my car.... :laugh:

Brako_UK

04-01-2009, 14:37

For the more realistic approach i always refused to use driving aids no matter if it was a arcade racer or a so called sim racer.I used to get so much abuse because i used to host room's and have the assists locked in hope that some other racing fans would join but sadly i just used to end up with a bunch of over eager acceleration chaps who used to annihilate each other and myself on the actual starting grid.

Hopefully those days will be over with Race pro what with most of its fan base actually having driving knowledge but we will see.

Is it really that difficult to actually implement the ability to allow gamers to be able to add there own racing number into the game?.

chilledheat

04-01-2009, 14:48

ok, let me clear up our situation with regards to car numbers in the IFCA (http://www.ifcaracing.com)!

The reason behind us making car numbers a requirement is firstly, for our own administrative purposes when using spreadsheets for Championship point scoring; be it for the IFCA Forza Championship 2009 (http://ifca.highforum.net/ifca-forza-championship-2009-f166/) or IFCA Race Pro Championship 2009 (http://ifca.highforum.net/ifca-events-f157/)!

Secondly, it helps to emmerse the experience. On their own, drivers gamertags have no relation to motorsport usually, so to include this number aspect makes them more involved and belonging. Authenticity is increased!

A major point however, is in relation to the media created. Take a look at some pictures (http://ifca.highforum.net/specracing-series-4-completed-f77/specracing-series-4-photo-thread-640-x-360-t1449.htm) - having a unique car number creates an instant face to a driver. Seeing that number teaches everything you need to know in what expect when fighting with them! Combined with that, your instantly recognisable to those on the outside. Hopefully, you can take photos in Race Pro. Even if there are no numbers, people will still take pictures of great action shots, and a description of the event will just have to do!

Finally, with regards to videos and replays, the number identification is a massive bonus! Take a look at our Vimeo race replays (http://www.vimeo.com/user556389/videos), or to a certain extent, our Youtube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/ifcaracing). Numbers do work very well, but with Forzas absolutely terrible replay system, its hard to achieve.

With that said, i expect such a massive improvement in Race Pro's replay, then having no numbers may not be a huge problem! At least with decent angles, we can have captions and other identification.

Its just a case of rolling with the punches and evolving to suit your surroundings. We are not worried ;)

Comet302

05-01-2009, 01:24

thank you chilledheat! i am glad you helped clarify everything - this is why i began this post..... i too hope the replay in Race Pro works much better!...

I have yet to see any MP videos, so I don't know how GT's will be shown... i guess as usual it will hover above the cars... but will that be visible in replay???... time will only tell.... :)

PzR_Tak

05-01-2009, 01:29

Race07 has a free camera that can be put anywhere you want to. It also has TV cameras that watch the action from the sidelines, no "Look at what funky camera angles we can do. What? you want to see the racing? Are you mad?" camera angles.

Then you've got cameras essentially bolted onto the car:

Roof, Right wheel Forwards, Right wheel Backwards, Left wheel forwards, Left wheel backwards, and too many others to list (there are around 10 at a guess). Also generic above and behind the car, but that can be made to orbit the car somewhat.

In terms of identifying, I've not watched any MP replays on it yet, so I don't know how it handle the names.

Brako_UK

05-01-2009, 11:08

It was such a shame that Forza 2 had such weak camera angles when watching the replay,especially for the likes of either wanting to see your paint job looking funky zooming round the track or simply to just give your self a pat on the back for having the perfect lap,only to be let down by the replay footage.

The track which had the worst timing on that game to change camera angles was on the track called Maple Valley,on the down hill section the camera seemed to always want to show you the leftside of your car in an extreme close up when it should have been set at a much better angle.

What i am hoping for from Race pro is camera footage from tracks that you would normally see when watching tv footage so it looks much better and also hopfully have the ability to save your favourites.

VVV_Hellbr1ng3r

05-01-2009, 12:03

I just want to race with my #616 :(

Comet302

05-01-2009, 12:12

I just want to race with my #616 :(

i know what you mean.. i want my #302 !!!!! mdr1

Brako_UK

05-01-2009, 12:44

Hellbringer????616????,its all becomming clear now.It seems old Nick is a huge racing fan.

Comet302

05-01-2009, 13:13

but isn't 616 considered to be the original "number of the beast"??... lol....

Brako_UK

05-01-2009, 13:21

Yes that was what my failed attempt at humour was trying to get at.

Comet302

05-01-2009, 13:33

Yes that was what my failed attempt at humour was trying to get at.

lol.. and here i was trying to find some classic race car driver from the past that had #616.... honest i was looking.... :nuts:

VVV_Hellbr1ng3r

05-01-2009, 15:07

Heh heh ;)

#616 - Been on my car since LFS days
Yes, original number of the beast according to the oldest surviving part of the 'book'

NickJames

05-01-2009, 19:07

I cant wait to get 123 on me car, Iv had that number on every single car i ever had on Forza and other racing games.

Comet302

06-01-2009, 02:24

I cant wait to get 123 on me car, Iv had that number on every single car i ever had on Forza and other racing games.

sorry to say though... you can't add numbers to your car in Race Pro.... but as we all might hope that the MP is different... you never know, it may be there... but from all the videos and all the pics so far, you use what is out there in the real world of cars from the real series, that's it.... maybe one car has 123... we all just need to wait and find out..... and wait..... and wait.... :sleep: lol...